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Manchester United

Neiler said:
It shows how football has changed in a way and how everyone’s idea of success has been conditioned by Sky Sports and the like and driven more toward revenue and CL qualification. It used to be about winning trophies.

Ten Hag won two trophies in two seasons.

Arteta has won one in five years.

Emery hasn’t won any with Villa.

Interesting how the narratives around all three are different.

An observation is all.
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A fair observation, too. Rightly or wrongly, as @BlueStevie35 mentioned, the standard they and others hold them too is that of Ferguson and his success.

That was always going to be difficult, if not unsustainable, and I get why people mention the comparisons of the RS and their demise after the 70s and 80s.

The FA Cup and League cup aren't what they believe they should be winning; their aspirations will be the league, European success and whatnot.

In his first season, they finished 3rd, then 8th and where are they now? They can't see they haven't backed him either, but the squad is full of overpaid dross.

We all know that in many, if not most, clubs of a certain stature time is not something that is given to people to develop a plan, rather success is expected.

If Arteta doesn't win them a title soon, will he face the pressure? Villa won't have the same expectations because historically they're not in Sky's top team list.

But moving slightly away, United's biggest issue is that the owners and staff have let the club drift into this position because it kept making them money.

They had big attendances, big sponsorships and could attract certain names, however the squad is now a mess, Old Trafford is archaic and it's all gone sour.

I doubt if Arsenal's owner is really that bothered about them not winning the title or whatnot, because the gravy train continues. You reap what you sow.
 
Amorim is very 3-4-3 minded, I don't see a few of the current squad fitting his system which means more spending (can they do this) I'm guessing the hierarchy at Utd are hoping he can entice Gyokeres to help sort out their poor goalscoring record, I'm interested to see what happens with that backline as Yoro is still seemingly injured and the others like Maguire and Martinez and Evans I don't see being up to the task for what he will want.
 

GoldenToffee said:
Well give Emery a chance ffs. :lol:

He joined Villa when they were on the verge of being dragged into a relegation battle, and not only got them safe but actually qualified for Europe in the same season, then got them into the Champions League in their very next season by finishing fourth.

Villa spent about 60m net in his first summer transfer window, then about 30m net in his second. I suppose almost 100m net across two seasons is more than most clubs spend in the Premier League (unless you're cheats like Chelsea and City).

He now has a young squad with incredible depth that should give them a great chance to remain in and around the top four for seasons to come.

I'd say Arteta definitely should have done more with Arsenal, and Ten Hag should probably have done better with the money United have spent, although one Champions League qualification and two domestic cups wins in two seasons isn't particularly bad given how far United have fallen in recent years. I guess it would have been hard to come in and instantly have performed that much better.
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Its a curious one though mate . Not really having a go at Emery really - he's done a wonderful job, its just an observation really on what is considered success these days and how really that influences perception and narrative and how its changed from just winning trophies.
 
Simon Buttle said:
Amorim is very 3-4-3 minded, I don't see a few of the current squad fitting his system which means more spending (can they do this) I'm guessing the hierarchy at Utd are hoping he can entice Gyokeres to help sort out their poor goalscoring record, I'm interested to see what happens with that backline as Yoro is still seemingly injured and the others like Maguire and Martinez and Evans I don't see being up to the task for what he will want.
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Evans + £20m for Branthwaite! 😁
 
Neiler said:
Its a curious one though mate . Not really having a go at Emery really - he's done a wonderful job, its just an observation really on what is considered success these days and how really that influences perception and narrative and how its changed from just winning trophies.
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Emery is doing fine imo, has turned Villa around 100% flying in the league and flying at the top of the CL. If anyone should have question marks over them it would be Arteta and Ange for me. Arteta should have done something by now given the investment there and Ange has a talented squad but its hard to see what he is trying to do, he has a kamikaze way of playing and Spurs will struggle to win things playing like that imo, I think they are kicking the can down the road tbh.
 
Simon Buttle said:
Amorim is very 3-4-3 minded, I don't see a few of the current squad fitting his system which means more spending (can they do this) I'm guessing the hierarchy at Utd are hoping he can entice Gyokeres to help sort out their poor goalscoring record, I'm interested to see what happens with that backline as Yoro is still seemingly injured and the others like Maguire and Martinez and Evans I don't see being up to the task for what he will want.
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Think De Ligt, Yoro, Martinez and Shaw all suit a back 3 tbh. Chances of even 3 of them being fit at the same time are slim to none though
 
FTY said:
Think De Ligt, Yoro, Martinez and Shaw all suit a back 3 tbh. Chances of even 3 of them being fit at the same time are slim to none though
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Shaw can't stay fit and De Ligt looks out of his depth at times, not sure where Rashford gets in either tbh. Will be interesting to see.
 

Simon Buttle said:
Emery is doing fine imo, has turned Villa around 100% flying in the league and flying at the top of the CL. If anyone should have question marks over them it would be Arteta and Ange for me. Arteta should have done something by now given the investment there and Ange has a talented squad but its hard to see what he is trying to do, he has a kamikaze way of playing and Spurs will struggle to win things playing like that imo, I think they are kicking the can down the road tbh.
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Again, not having a go at Emery. An observation really on how success is measured and how that has changed. Just to spark some thoughts.

Emery is interesting in the sense, that he was seen as a failure at Arsenal yet a huge success at Villa. Maybe success is relative.

That said take Moyes - he did what Emery did here got Everton into the CL from a position of fighting relegation the proceeding year- but many would say still didn't succeed because he didn't win a trophy.

ETH won two - but still considered a failure comparatively to the above and the narratives are completely different.
 
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Eggs said:
….looking likely that Amorim will be offered the gig, certainly lots of plaudits for him. Apparently spent a week with Mourinho when he was at United so has an insight.
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He’s done very well in the Portuguese league. Sporting haven’t lost a league game all season. Would say that this is partly due to benfica and Porto being relatively poor and some teams in the league are league 1 standard.

Its a bit of a risk I think.
 

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