2019/20 Marcel Brands

[brettangellnightporter]

A very loose definition of 'worth' there.

Price paid a year ago, player is still 21.

 

[Lanolin]

Price paid a year ago, player is still 21.

I was talking about both of them. I'd be surprised if we got anywhere near those figures at the moment. The fact a club has paid a certain price doesn't mean the player is worth it. In fact if the club is us, it's a pretty good bet that they aren't.

 

[Goat]

I was talking about both of them. I'd be surprised if we got anywhere near those figures at the moment. The fact a club has paid a certain price doesn't mean the player is worth it. In fact if the club is us, it's a pretty good bet that they aren't.

I suspect his stock is still fairly high in Italy.

 

[DrEFC]

I rate Digne. But he's not going to break into the £50M for a FB bracket.

If city are after him, it's that amount at a minimum.

 

[Lanolin]

I suspect his stock is still fairly high in Italy.

Yeah it probably is. I just think you'd have to be stupid to pay £25m for him though, because the second we say he can go, we're basically admitting he's no good to us. We then have no bargaining power whatsoever, and any negotiator worth their salt will just say we'll take him on loan. He's now got a question mark over him that wasn't there a year ago, paying pretty much the same as we did would be a pretty silly thing to do in the current climate I think. Hopefully we don't find out because we have faith he can turn it around, but I really wouldn't be surprised if he was loaned somewhere with a view to a £20m move next year.

 

[Goat]

Yeah it probably is. I just think you'd have to be stupid to pay £25m for him though, because the second we say he can go, we're basically admitting he's no good to us. We then have no bargaining power whatsoever, and any negotiator worth their salt will just say we'll take him on loan. He's now got a question mark over him that wasn't there a year ago, paying pretty much the same as we did would be a pretty silly thing to do in the current climate I think. Hopefully we don't find out because we have faith he can turn it around, but I really wouldn't be surprised if he was loaned somewhere with a view to a £20m move next year.

Mino wont be liking his clients career stalling.

Im expecting him to open his big trapper at some point.

He will sell him for us if we want rid.

 

[murphy89]

Again, I think you're sort of bending the facts to suit the argument you want to make here. That's fine, obviously, but there's definitely another way to look at it.

I suppose we all present facts in a manner that would suit our argument. Wouldn't be a very convincing argument otherwise.

what would be the opposing view?

 

[Lanolin]

I suppose we all present facts in a manner that would suit our argument. Wouldn't be a very convincing argument otherwise.

what would be the opposing view?

We do, which is why I said it's fine. Ideally you add a little balance in though, and I'm not sure that post had it. I was just pointing out that the argument doesn't really stand up to any scrutiny, because it's cherry picked so much. You can't compare the price of a left back and a goalscoring (lol) attacking midfielder and use it as evidence that it's cheaper to buy players who aren't wanted at big clubs than it is to buy players who are outgrowing lesser clubs. The players aren't comparable at all. A better example to use would have been Keane and Mina, who both play in the same position, were a similar age, and most fans would see as being of a fairly similar level. But then that would have shown that Mina was more expensive than Keane - considerably so if their reported wages are factored in - and so it wouldn't have worked.

Brands isn't a fraud who's out of his depth, but he's not 'the architect' either. One more season like the last two and I think we're at a stage where we're saying he's failed, at least with regard to the first team. You can't call it a success when you take over a team that's finished 7th and 8th in the previous two seasons, spend a load of money on players in their mid 20s, and don't improve the league position in three years. I don't really think that's debatable is it? To me this window is massive, if we get it wrong I think we're at the point where you say thanks but no thanks. Hopefully we get it right though.

 

[davek]

Marcel had a dream

His dream is our nightmare.

 

[davek]

If city are after him, it's that amount at a minimum.

Probably playing hardball with Leicester over Chillwell.

If it is City the fee has to be £40M.

Only mega-rich mug clubs like that would cough that up, though.

 

[Goat]

Probably playing hardball with Leicester over Chillwell.

If it is City the fee has to be £40M.

Only mega-rich mug clubs like that would cough that up, though.

40m, for the best fullback in Europe?

Oh Dave.

 

[Bob Elstone]

Brands is under pressure here.2 decent signings out of the total. One of which was Silva’s richarlison. Rest are at best ok.

Not sure I’d trust him with any more funds to be honest.

 

[murphy89]

We do, which is why I said it's fine. Ideally you add a little balance in though, and I'm not sure that post had it. I was just pointing out that the argument doesn't really stand up to any scrutiny, because it's cherry picked so much. You can't compare the price of a left back and a goalscoring (lol) attacking midfielder and use it as evidence that it's cheaper to buy players who aren't wanted at big clubs than it is to buy players who are outgrowing lesser clubs. The players aren't comparable at all. A better example to use would have been Keane and Mina, who both play in the same position, were a similar age, and most fans would see as being of a fairly similar level. But then that would have shown that Mina was more expensive than Keane - considerably so if their reported wages are factored in - and so it wouldn't have worked.

Brands isn't a fraud who's out of his depth, but he's not 'the architect' either. One more season like the last two and I think we're at a stage where we're saying he's failed, at least with regard to the first team. You can't call it a success when you take over a team that's finished 7th and 8th in the previous two seasons, spend a load of money on players in their mid 20s, and don't improve the league position in three years. I don't really think that's debatable is it? To me this window is massive, if we get it wrong I think we're at the point where you say thanks but no thanks. Hopefully we get it right though.

Fair point.

I would counter that Keane and Mina comparison though. Firstly, the transfer fee difference is minimal, around £2.5m? Wages I accept are hugely different. However, Keane was in the final year of his contract and Mina was coming off the back of successful World Cup campaign and despite his six months at Barcelona was still highly rated in world football...pretty sure Barca wanted a buy-back clause?

25m for a Burnley player in the final year of his contract is far too high a fee.

 

[Lanolin]

Fair point.

I would counter that Keane and Mina comparison though. Firstly, the transfer fee difference is minimal, around £2.5m? Wages I accept are hugely different. However, Keane was in the final year of his contract and Mina was coming off the back of successful World Cup campaign and despite his six months at Barcelona was still highly rated in world football...pretty sure Barca wanted a buy-back clause?

25m for a Burnley player in the final year of his contract is far too high a fee.

I don't think you can take that sort of thing into consideration really, it's part of the DoF's job to find value and quality, whether someone has a year left on their contract or is coming from Barcelona or Burnley is neither here nor there when looking at how they perform for us, which is what we're interested in.

I think again you're being a bit one sided in the summary. Mina was highly rated in world football? 99% of us had never heard of him before the world cup let's be honest. Barca put buy backs in for pretty much everyone, I don't think any of us believe they'll activate it though, which is the relevant thing. That's not to say he's useless, it's just that you're inflating his standing to make it sound like a better deal.

You talk about us judging deals in hindsight but as fans thats all we can do. It's not our job to scout players and work out if they'll fit into the side, all we can judge is whether they're any good for us or not. Unfortunately, none of the players we signed last summer have turned out to be good value in their first season, so people are understandably concerned. If players like Kean and Iwobi blossom next year it will change the way the business has Brands has done is viewed in a positive way, if Gomes carries on playing as he has recently and Mina keeps getting injured it will change it in a negative way, that's how these things work. Brands' job is to make the team and club better, we can only judge him on whether that happens, not whether it would have happened in a parallel universe.

 

[davek]

40m, for the best fullback in Europe?

Oh Dave.

Off Man City or Madrid. Yes.

Off any other club? No chance. And I'm an admirer, btw.