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2019/20 Marcel Brands

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HKIV said:
Heads buried in the sand - all very Brexit.

It will all come out in the wash in October/November and the ‘nothing to worry about merchants’ will have an excuse or disappear.
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You're head has fell off and rolled down a sand dune.
 
6 out of 10 for this window. Not getting a centre back is verging on the unforgivable. The fact we were pratting about with United reserves on deadline day says it all that, in manh ways, nothing has changed.
 
Axlswhk said:
I an prepare to see young players step in and make mistake which is inevitable. You will see a 60m defender commit mistake here and there occasionally as well. This should not be the reason to deprive them the development they need.
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I like your sentiments but the reality is we can’t afford the likes of Holgate continuing to make the mistakes we saw in pre season ‘to aid his development’. It will cost us a european place if that’s the case.
 

Brisan123 said:
@MarcelsGoat
Wether you want to believe it or not Brands messed up big time at the end of the window
He got Lössl on a free to allow country roads out on loan good
He signed Gomes good
He signed Delph for the price Good
He signed Ganas replacement Gbamin good
He signed Kean the striker we needed good
He failed miserably to sign a CB
All his hopes pinned on Zouma or Tomori on loan
Arsenal signing Luiz blindsided him and he had no plan B
He should have had better options
He could have signed Luiz by offering more money and a signing on bonus
As for Zaha he should have had plan B but obviously thought he would get the deal done.
Iwobi despite what Silva said was plan F or G and not the left footed right winger Silva asked for
There were plenty of options available but he was too stubborn to go there
I know it’s about getting the right players for the system but if Zaha and Doucoure were not available he should have other options lined up
Rugani was available as was Umtiti even on loan
Going for the 6th choice CB from United stinks of desperation
The CB from PSV is available on a free and I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s the last resort
A good start for Brands but a dreadful finish and Silva has rightfully called him out on it
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I don't have a problem with Silva putting pressure on the senior management to provide during the transfer window. In fact that's something I'd want in my manager. But I have to say I agree 100% with the clubs decision not to spend £25m and big wages on an aging injury prone defender, especially when there is a good chance that our number one choice may be available in the January window. Marco Silva may well be annoyed that we didn't bring in another top central defender but I believe it won't take long for him to get over it. He's a pragmatic man and will know that the club delivered on 4 of the 5 needs, and he now has a squad better placed to challenge the top 6 than the one he started the season with 12 months ago.

Also what makes you think that either Rugani or Umtiti were available for sale, or would even come here if they were. Why didn't either Arsenal or Leicester go after either of them. Both clubs are in more dire need of a defender than we are. Both players are still with their clubs and I wouldn't be shocked if they were still there when the transfer window closes on September 2nd. Plus Rugani is similar to Keane and Mina and definitely NOT what we need.

I've said before, in the centre back department we are better placed than most of our peers, even without strengthening in the summer. Only Chelsea, and arguably United, are better placed than us. Having said that, how many on here would be happy with Smalling, Jones and Rojos as back up? And Bailly is out for most of the season. Would anybody take any of Arsenals or Wolves defenders. And Leicester are starting the season with Evans and Morgan with a young Turkish lad as back up. Our starting pair are probably as good as any of our peers. We have Gbamin we can call on and bear in mind Klopp was looking at him as a defender last season, and not many managers know the German league better than him. Plus is Holgate really as bad as some on here make out. In all the games he's played for us I can only pick out 2 when he was really poor. Stoke away on a wet and windy day 2 years ago when he was hauled off at half time. And West Ham at home last season when he was bullied by Arnautovic. I don't even think he's had a bad pre season. He's made a couple of mistakes which ended up as goals but the majority of times you'll get away with them. Most of the time in the games I saw he looked pretty good.
 
Barnfred 55 said:
I don't have a problem with Silva putting pressure on the senior management to provide during the transfer window. In fact that's something I'd want in my manager. But I have to say I agree 100% with the clubs decision not to spend £25m and big wages on an aging injury prone defender, especially when there is a good chance that our number one choice may be available in the January window. Marco Silva may well be annoyed that we didn't bring in another top central defender but I believe it won't take long for him to get over it. He's a pragmatic man and will know that the club delivered on 4 of the 5 needs, and he now has a squad better placed to challenge the top 6 than the one he started the season with 12 months ago.

Also what makes you think that either Rugani or Umtiti were available for sale, or would even come here if they were. Why didn't either Arsenal or Leicester go after either of them. Both clubs are in more dire need of a defender than we are. Both players are still with their clubs and I wouldn't be shocked if they were still there when the transfer window closes on September 2nd. Plus Rugani is similar to Keane and Mina and definitely NOT what we need.

I've said before, in the centre back department we are better placed than most of our peers, even without strengthening in the summer. Only Chelsea, and arguably United, are better placed than us. Having said that, how many on here would be happy with Smalling, Jones and Rojos as back up? And Bailly is out for most of the season. Would anybody take any of Arsenals or Wolves defenders. And Leicester are starting the season with Evans and Morgan with a young Turkish lad as back up. Our starting pair are probably as good as any of our peers. We have Gbamin we can call on and bear in mind Klopp was looking at him as a defender last season, and not many managers know the German league better than him. Plus is Holgate really as bad as some on here make out. In all the games he's played for us I can only pick out 2 when he was really poor. Stoke away on a wet and windy day 2 years ago when he was hauled off at half time. And West Ham at home last season when he was bullied by Arnautovic. I don't even think he's had a bad pre season. He's made a couple of mistakes which ended up as goals but the majority of times you'll get away with them. Most of the time in the games I saw he looked pretty good.
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Umtiti was offered to PSG as part of the proposed Neymar deal so he’s obviously available
Rugani is surplus to requirements at Juve since they signed DeLigt
Maybe they would not have come but sure enquiries should have been made
I didn’t want Rojo either but surely there was a plan B if zouma /Tomori was not available
I disagree on Holgate
He’s ok in a 3 but as you said in a 2 he will be bullied and is a liability
I still can’t fathom how there was no realistic plan after Zouma
If Chelsea don’t get their ban reduced or cancelled zouma is going nowhere in Jan so I hope Brands has a plan for a CB in Jan
 
Brisan123 said:
Umtiti was offered to PSG as part of the proposed Neymar deal so he’s obviously available
Rugani is surplus to requirements at Juve since they signed DeLigt
Maybe they would not have come but sure enquiries should have been made
I didn’t want Rojo either but surely there was a plan B if zouma /Tomori was not available
I disagree on Holgate
He’s ok in a 3 but as you said in a 2 he will be bullied and is a liability
I still can’t fathom how there was no realistic plan after Zouma
If Chelsea don’t get their ban reduced or cancelled zouma is going nowhere in Jan so I hope Brands has a plan for a CB in Jan
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Ok, hold up. Can we stop talking like we know what Brands was doing? This idea that he had no plan is just silly. There are no ITKs anymore. Most of the press stuff was completely made up.

We were linked with several CBs during the window, but so what?

If the suggestion is that we should buy Umitit or Rugani, these guys are 30-40M players. The CB market is ludicrous. Neither of those guys are good enough to start over Mina or Keane and have serious question marks.

Holgate is also not getting bullied. This isn't 3 years ago, the dude is plenty strong. His issue is that he's not good with the ball and he thinks he is. He's not real sound positionally, either.

Rojo would've helped, but no way we were buying him at 25M. Him on loan would've been sound. But in the meantime, we have Holgate, Gbamin, Feeney, Gibson, and have we forgotten about Cuco Martina?
 
CRIMHEAD said:
Ok, hold up. Can we stop talking like we know what Brands was doing? This idea that he had no plan is just silly. There are no ITKs anymore. Most of the press stuff was completely made up.

We were linked with several CBs during the window, but so what?

If the suggestion is that we should buy Umitit or Rugani, these guys are 30-40M players. The CB market is ludicrous. Neither of those guys are good enough to start over Mina or Keane and have serious question marks.

Holgate is also not getting bullied. This isn't 3 years ago, the dude is plenty strong. His issue is that he's not good with the ball and he thinks he is. He's not real sound positionally, either.

Rojo would've helped, but no way we were buying him at 25M. Him on loan would've been sound. But in the meantime, we have Holgate, Gbamin, Feeney, Gibson, and have we forgotten about Cuco Martina?
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I had forgotten about Martina till you brought him up
Holgate will never be a good enough CB for a team pushing for top 6
 

Charlie Sweet said:
6 out of 10 for this window. Not getting a centre back is verging on the unforgivable. The fact we were pratting about with United reserves on deadline day says it all that, in manh ways, nothing has changed.
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Left Silva without a decent striker for 2 windows then gets him a kid in and totally neglects the CB position this window, it was an awful window the more i think about it, we just had to push the top 6 this season, any of our top players are gonna be off as soon as a team who actually pushes to win things comes in for them, I'm losing faith in Rupert the Bear now, just gotta hope Kean has an old head on young shoulders.
 
Brisan123 said:
Umtiti was offered to PSG as part of the proposed Neymar deal so he’s obviously available
Rugani is surplus to requirements at Juve since they signed DeLigt
Maybe they would not have come but sure enquiries should have been made
I didn’t want Rojo either but surely there was a plan B if zouma /Tomori was not available
I disagree on Holgate
He’s ok in a 3 but as you said in a 2 he will be bullied and is a liability
I still can’t fathom how there was no realistic plan after Zouma
If Chelsea don’t get their ban reduced or cancelled zouma is going nowhere in Jan so I hope Brands has a plan for a CB in Jan
Click to expand...
Don't believe everything you read in the papers, but you already know that.
Also Chiellini and Bonucci are definitely not getting any younger. Don't assume Rugani is the one to make way.
I've seen Holgate bullied in 1 game out if 35. That isn't a liability.
The plan for Zouma was Tomori. This was thwarted at 11th hour. Yes it's a mistake by Brands, no doubt , but it isn't the disaster people are making it out to be. We are still in a better position at CB than most of our peers.
If CAS don't mete out the same leniency they showed to Madrid a couple of years ago under very similar circumstances, they'll leave themselves open. I'll be surprised if Chelsea's ban isn't reduced to 1 window which will allow them to buy players in January. By that stage Rudiger will have returned from injury. It depends how much football Zouma is getting by that stage. If he finds himself sitting on the bench most of the time don't be surprised to see him pushing for a move. I'm confident that Zouma remains our long term primary target.
 
rochdaleblue said:
I like your sentiments but the reality is we can’t afford the likes of Holgate continuing to make the mistakes we saw in pre season ‘to aid his development’. It will cost us a european place if that’s the case.
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Mistakes are inevitable mate. Someday we will see striker missing penalty, some veteran conceding penalty, some midfielders getting red card, winger missing open goal from 5 yards. They all contribute towards the final league place. The point is, should we have a go at youngster the way we’ve been critical with senior pro or give them some room for error.
I understand the need for experience defender but we don’t have a choice now, I think let’s give them some faith is the best way forward.
 

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