2020/21 Marcel Brands

[LocalNative]

If he signs a new deal I'll be astonished as this summer window aside he's been average to poor with his signings and even then James and Allan were largely brought in by Carlo same as Silva would have played a huge hand in Richarlison coming in.

I only really fully credit him with Doucoure, Godfrey and Digne as being his good signings.

Iwobi
Delph
Sidibe
Lossl
Gbamin
Kean
Slowmes

He's signed as many duds as Walsh did.

Iwobi - yes he's been turd
Delph - crap crap crap
Sidibe - done a job and was a stop-gap, should've had his replacement this summer tho
Lossl - free trasnfer, no loss
Gbamin - very harsh, big injury has impacted things
Kean - crap but we should make profit
Gomes - very unlucky, we were all desperate to sign him permanently and unfortunately the injury has affected him too much

He's got about a 6/10 rating for me which isn't great. I feel like he should be given more time tho as we've had some dreadful managers throughout his time here and he's still working his way through the guff Steve Walsh left us.

 

[blueblue]

Which is exactly why I always find it very odd that people insist on including them in the lists of good signings. They might be absolutely brilliant signings, but at this moment in time there doesn't seem to be any justification in using them as positives.

I put them in because I believe it is in that category of player we have most successful in the transfer market.
Coleman, Stones, Holgate, DCL,Vlasic,Lookman,Virginia have turned into good Everton players or made us lots of money.

Both Branthwaite and Nkonkou have shown that we can be optimistic about their futures.
I am a little surprised Nkonkou has not had more minutes on the field on the left wing in front of Digne

 

[APN_EFC]

Iwobi - yes he's been turd
Delph - crap crap crap
Sidibe - done a job and was a stop-gap, should've had his replacement this summer tho
Lossl - free trasnfer, no loss
Gbamin - very harsh, big injury has impacted things
Kean - crap but we should make profit
Gomes - very unlucky, we were all desperate to sign him permanently and unfortunately the injury has affected him too much

He's got about a 6/10 rating for me which isn't great. I feel like he should be given more time tho as we've had some dreadful managers throughout his time here and he's still working his way through the guff Steve Walsh left us.

I agree with some of this apart from
Kean - a gamble worth taking because either he's good at Everton or sold for a profit
Delph - I agree, but they were looking for a new Gareth Barry.

It's true about 6/10 for other reasons too
- Is is role actually to develop players too and look for opportunities? I think more than just the First Xi I'm looking for his role as an investor in players - we either develop players here and they are first teamers for 'free' or they make us money.
- Developing a style across the senior teams so that U23rs can fit into the first XI more easily
- Looking at how we manage injuries, fitness, travel, nutrition - getting the right staff in the club.
- Changing them professionally and in terms of mentality across the club - s0 that Finch Farm as a whole is successful.

We never hear about his work on those things and I wish we did more.

 

[Lanolin]

I put them in because I believe it is in that category of player we have most successful in the transfer market.
Coleman, Stones, Holgate, DCL,Vlasic,Lookman,Virginia have turned into good Everton players or made us lots of money.

Both Branthwaite and Nkonkou have shown that we can be optimistic about their futures.
I am a little surprised Nkonkou has not had more minutes on the field on the left wing in front of Digne

Yeah I understand that and I like what i've seen of them. It just feels like every time someone puts up a list of the good signings they're on it and it's far too early to tell really. I mean at the price we paid neither of them will ever go down as bad signings, but I'd just leave them off altogether really, until we can say with any certainty that they've been positives.

 

[CJR]

Carlo gets all the credit for James, which is fair as he would not be here without Carlo, but who negotiated the terms and got him on a free transfer? Did Brands not play a part in that? Or did Carlo do all the negotiating as well?

 

[blueblue]

Yeah I understand that and I like what i've seen of them. It just feels like every time someone puts up a list of the good signings they're on it and it's far too early to tell really. I mean at the price we paid neither of them will ever go down as bad signings, but I'd just leave them off altogether really, until we can say with any certainty that they've been positives.

Because of their lack of experience and the crucial positions they play it is hard to get them minutes on the pitch in our team
You want them to move to a good quality championship side to get experience but they also will not put young players into their team just because they come from us.

A number of our younger players got experience in more forward roles Initially.
Coleman played as a right winger Godfrey and Holgate at full back, DCL played wide

I think in particular Nkonkou could have done well as a left winger.

 

[LocalNative]

I agree with some of this apart from
Kean - a gamble worth taking because either he's good at Everton or sold for a profit
Delph - I agree, but they were looking for a new Gareth Barry.

It's true about 6/10 for other reasons too
- Is is role actually to develop players too and look for opportunities? I think more than just the First Xi I'm looking for his role as an investor in players - we either develop players here and they are first teamers for 'free' or they make us money.
- Developing a style across the senior teams so that U23rs can fit into the first XI more easily
- Looking at how we manage injuries, fitness, travel, nutrition - getting the right staff in the club.
- Changing them professionally and in terms of mentality across the club - s0 that Finch Farm as a whole is successful.

We never hear about his work on those things and I wish we did more.

Good points on the two players.

And agreed on the other comments. We've got such a confusing structure and don't know how Unsworth has landed Academy Director role as well as being the U23's coach. Brands you would think should be implementing a style and structure across the entire club, but we're still yet to see an academy graduate since Davies make their way to being a first team player.

But like you say, it's hard to know because we hear very little about any of those more intricate details. I would say all in all, he's been underwhelming in his 3 years at the club so far.

 

[wandyr79]

The bottom line is that we are no further forward now after 3 years of him than when he arrived.

Managers have to walk the plank for records like that at this club and so should he.

The owners need to punt him.

We are further because better quality has come into the club than previous, injuries have curtailed much of the on field development but there is a very good case that we are in a stronger position to continue to improve from.

I find it strange, that is all, that some people know 100% what his role is at the club and what exactly he is 100% responsible for.

You, yourself, have lauded the good signings on Ancelotti so we know you believe there have been good signings and if we take into account that you don't know 100% that Ancelotti and only Ancelotti was involved in every aspect of those signings then we get to the point where in a realistic world they are good club signings, regardless of who persuaded them, who worked out the contract details, who picked them up at the airport and made them feel welcome at Finch Farm, etc.

There have been more good signings than bad, especially in the last 18 months so all in all I think we can look positively on the future, if Brands is not here this summer then so be it, we will have to give the new process/system/people time to bed in and see what they can do. All in all, it will be the same thought process from me though as it is the club who are signing players unless we are told 100% otherwise from the horses mouth that this person or that person had no involvement, etc.

The only one I have seen talked about is that they had to persuade Ancelotti about Doucoure, so we know that he was not aware of him and other people had to get him to say yes or no. If there are reports of others it would be interesting but I have a strong feeling that not all signings will be the same story, i.e. Ancelotti having to persuade people, Unsworth having to do it, AN Other scout having to do it, they all agree straight away and so on.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

I agree with some of this apart from
Kean - a gamble worth taking because either he's good at Everton or sold for a profit
Delph - I agree, but they were looking for a new Gareth Barry.

It's true about 6/10 for other reasons too
- Is is role actually to develop players too and look for opportunities? I think more than just the First Xi I'm looking for his role as an investor in players - we either develop players here and they are first teamers for 'free' or they make us money.
- Developing a style across the senior teams so that U23rs can fit into the first XI more easily
- Looking at how we manage injuries, fitness, travel, nutrition - getting the right staff in the club.
- Changing them professionally and in terms of mentality across the club - s0 that Finch Farm as a whole is successful.

We never hear about his work on those things and I wish we did more.

My worry is the Dutch have gone from being pioneers in swashbuckling football to an ageing slow philosophy that doesn't suit certainly PL football.

We all bemoan having slow players particularly midfielders who dont drive forward with the ball and instead opt for the sideways pass and whilst that may suit Eredivise (see Davy Klassen) its not suitable for our league.

The concern for me has always been taking someone out of that league as DOF and have them leading the scouting of players to be suitable to the PL/English football.

You look at Moyes in one season brought in 3 signings who suit his system to the ground in Soucek, Coufal and Lingard - do you have faith in Brands being able to do that?

 

[wandyr79]

My worry is the Dutch have gone from being pioneers in swashbuckling football to an ageing slow philosophy that doesn't suit certainly PL football.

We all bemoan having slow players particularly midfielders who dont drive forward with the ball and instead opt for the sideways pass and whilst that may suit Eredivise (see Davy Klassen) its not suitable for our league.

The concern for me has always been taking someone out of that league as DOF and have them leading the scouting of players to be suitable to the PL/English football.

You look at Moyes in one season brought in 3 signings who suit his system to the ground in Soucek, Coufal and Lingard - do you have faith in Brands being able to do that?

I have faith in Ancelotti talking to Brands and Brands using a scouting network to find players that all/most agree on, or Ancelotti telling Brands what exact player he wants and either Brands or Ancelotti contacting the players club, agent, etc. and then Brands and the rest to sort out the fine print and the contract over the line.

People go on as if it is only Brands on his own picking players and then bringing them in with nobody else knowing.

 

[Toffeelover]

Iwobi - yes he's been turd
Delph - crap crap crap
Sidibe - done a job and was a stop-gap, should've had his replacement this summer tho
Lossl - free trasnfer, no loss
Gbamin - very harsh, big injury has impacted things
Kean - crap but we should make profit
Gomes - very unlucky, we were all desperate to sign him permanently and unfortunately the injury has affected him too much

He's got about a 6/10 rating for me which isn't great. I feel like he should be given more time tho as we've had some dreadful managers throughout his time here and he's still working his way through the guff Steve Walsh left us.

Why do you pick out the failings not the good signings?

 

[davek]

We are further because better quality has come into the club than previous, injuries have curtailed much of the on field development but there is a very good case that we are in a stronger position to continue to improve from.

I find it strange, that is all, that some people know 100% what his role is at the club and what exactly he is 100% responsible for.

You, yourself, have lauded the good signings on Ancelotti so we know you believe there have been good signings and if we take into account that you don't know 100% that Ancelotti and only Ancelotti was involved in every aspect of those signings then we get to the point where in a realistic world they are good club signings, regardless of who persuaded them, who worked out the contract details, who picked them up at the airport and made them feel welcome at Finch Farm, etc.

There have been more good signings than bad, especially in the last 18 months so all in all I think we can look positively on the future, if Brands is not here this summer then so be it, we will have to give the new process/system/people time to bed in and see what they can do. All in all, it will be the same thought process from me though as it is the club who are signing players unless we are told 100% otherwise from the horses mouth that this person or that person had no involvement, etc.

The only one I have seen talked about is that they had to persuade Ancelotti about Doucoure, so we know that he was not aware of him and other people had to get him to say yes or no. If there are reports of others it would be interesting but I have a strong feeling that not all signings will be the same story, i.e. Ancelotti having to persuade people, Unsworth having to do it, AN Other scout having to do it, they all agree straight away and so on.

The fact that people like yourself are having to make his case to stay on says it all. If we were in good shape, squad-wise, then this debate would be redundant. But he's overseen as big a waste of resources as his predecessor - and he had to walk the plank.

One or two decent signing after spending £250M over 3 years is not good enough.

IMO, he'll move on. And when he does I hope the ridiculous DoF post is scrapped with him. It's a line of bureaucracy we just dont need.

 

[wandyr79]

The fact that people like yourself are having to make his case to stay on says it all. If we were in good shape, squad-wise, then this debate would be redundant. But he's overseen as big a waste of resources as his predecessor - and he had to walk the plank.

One or two decent signing after spending £250M over 3 years is not good enough.

IMO, he'll move on. And when he does I hope the ridiculous DoF post is scrapped with him. It's a line of bureaucracy we just dont need.

I think you misjudged my point, especially as I said this:

"if Brands is not here this summer then so be it,"

 

[APN_EFC]

My worry is the Dutch have gone from being pioneers in swashbuckling football to an ageing slow philosophy that doesn't suit certainly PL football.

We all bemoan having slow players particularly midfielders who dont drive forward with the ball and instead opt for the sideways pass and whilst that may suit Eredivise (see Davy Klassen) its not suitable for our league.

The concern for me has always been taking someone out of that league as DOF and have them leading the scouting of players to be suitable to the PL/English football.

You look at Moyes in one season brought in 3 signings who suit his system to the ground in Soucek, Coufal and Lingard - do you have faith in Brands being able to do that?

That's a really good point. I don't know if you can single this out as a 'Dutch' philosophy or problem though? I thought what we were looking for in him is this idea of developing young players to succeed or sell . and a sort of low key version of Dortmund/Monaco/Porto and Ajax in recent years. However, that doesnt match Ancelotti - who is obviously bigger and has to have more influence. I don't have anything against him, I just don't understand what his exact role is, and particularly how his role matches / contradicts Ancelotti. I agree too - Moyes used to get in players here too which suited both the quality & mentality - thoughe had equally many flops - for every Cahill, Jagielka, Baines, Arteta and Coleman, there were also Rodrigos, Straqs etc

 

[LocalNative]

Why do you pick out the failings not the good signings?

I was replying to the ones listed by the previous user. Even so, I think his overall track record with signings is bang average at best.

Brands has spent £265m (net spent around £190m) in transfers in the past 3 years and look how turgid we still are.