2020/21 Marcel Brands

[catcherintherye]

I know what you mean, but I disagree.

I've said for years, I think our fans would be (reasonably) patient if there was a clear plan and end game in place. If we invested in younger players and said look it's not going to be quick and easy but there's method to this and it's going to pay off then people would get behind it. You don't have to be finishing 15th for 3 years before you get the success either, you can definitely be finishing where we are now with younger players and then looking to push on. Our problem is we never seem to buy into it properly, we do everything half arsed, and fans get impatient because the strategy isn't clear. It's hard to imagine us being any worse off if we'd used Vlasic, Lookman, Robinson etc over the last couple of years but instead we panicked and ripped the whole thing up to start again as usual. As others have said, I thought Brands coming in was supposed to stop that, but it's as bad as ever, the recruitment policy has no discernible underlying strategy at all, we just seem to buy whoever we believe is available and decent, without thinking any more about it.

I think there is a big communication problem at the club, and while Brands has been improvement on what went before, there remains a problem.

I'm not sure he has been open or specific in what he is trying to do, and defended his corner as much as he might have done, As you say, if people could see a roadmap and also see some ownership of what went wrong last season there would be more sympathy and support for him.

For me the entire top of the club think if you just say nothing problems go away. What happens is though is people eventually hit a tipping point, and there's no real loyalty there because it's not been built up.

I would keep Brands. But I'm also aware I have attributed a number of values to him that I have no idea if they are true, because nobody ever talks about them, and it's very possible I am misintepreting whats infront of us.

 

[Goat]

Didn't he interview for the manager position after Moyes left? Imagine how different are fortunes could of been. I doubt he'd leave RB at this stage , has been a major cog in their success and probably gets all the free red bulls he desires.

Hes unemployed and has been since July 2020.

 

[Curtis]

Hes unemployed and has been since July 2020.

I wasn't aware of that development thanks for the heads up. I would definitely prefer him over brands but he's been supposedly rebuffing Everton for years not just after Moyes departed.

 

[Goat]

Anyway, I think Brands has been very unlucky.

Gomes snapping his ankle, Gmblammo turning into Mr Glass.

He took a chance on Hamez and Delph and whilst Hamez has been worth it, Delph defo hasnt.

His 1 glaring error for me has been Iwobi tho, not even I can defend that, other than blame Marco Silva, but that's not even an option.

We had a 46 player first-team squad when he took the job.

People say its dead easy to get rid of players and whilst we could probably find clubs to take them for free, you ain't finding any clubs willing to pay the wages they want, so they stay on the fat contracts and go out on loan.

But anyway, we get rid of quite a bit of rubbish this summer, hopefully we can shift a few more out, yes the likes of Bernie haven't really worked out, but to go back to my first point, hes been very unlucky.

Sure some players hes bought have had a few niggles over the years, like Allan, Gomes, but none of them have missed as much time as they have for us, its just really unlucky.

Last night we had 10 injured players, with another 1 coming off, so we currently have 11 injured players, its no surprise that the bench is full of kids, its called an injury crisis. We can only name a 25 player squad, so simple maths says that if you lose 11 players, you only have 15 left, 1 of which is Besic, 3 of which are Keepers.

But anyway, big Summer for The Don coming up.

Lets hope he gets this 1 right, but please, have a sense of realism, hes not going to be able to shift the 15 players you want rid of.............................................

 

[Goat]

I wasn't aware of that development thanks for the heads up. I would definitely prefer him over brands but he's been supposedly rebuffing Everton for years not just after Moyes departed.

Cos his Redbull model wouldnt work here.

At Everton he wouldn't have 4 feeder clubs.

 

[Zatara]

However, if we don't finish in the top 8, they are going to realistically say, in 3 years what value have you added to the business?

The 2nd summer for brands sort of killed him. He's been very unlucky with Gbamin, but Delph, Sidibe and Iwobi have been poor buys. We have also got very lucky with Kean, as he would have been another flop too, but has been rejuvinated at PSG so we will make a profit. So it's swings and roundabouts. There's no doubt that is the summer where it went wrong for him.

I do actually see a plan with Brands, the promotion of younger players, and some of the cheaper signings we have made. The issue for me is really two fold. The first is, is he strong enough to implement a vision over what Carlo wants? Secondly there has probabky been a lack of dynamism in moving to this plan.

I know what you mean, but I disagree.

I've said for years, I think our fans would be (reasonably) patient if there was a clear plan and end game in place. If we invested in younger players and said look it's not going to be quick and easy but there's method to this and it's going to pay off then people would get behind it. You don't have to be finishing 15th for 3 years before you get the success either, you can definitely be finishing where we are now with younger players and then looking to push on. Our problem is we never seem to buy into it properly, we do everything half arsed, and fans get impatient because the strategy isn't clear.

I think Brands would have been seen in a different light if Gbamin and Kean had both come good.

You could have then made a case that Digne, Godfrey, Gbamin, Doucoure, Kean, Mina and Richarlison was 7/10 of an outfield built for £170mil odd.

As it is now, the team probably has Digne, Godfrey, Doucoure, Richarlison and DCL with possibly Pickford as a long term core.

To then target 5 top players who 'should' come in and hit the ground running you're talking probably another £150-200mil.

Lets say Moshiri floats in another £60mil budget, we'd then need to generate another £100mil+ in sales which is achievable if you bite the bullet -- sell Keane, Kean and Mina and move on a bunch of deadwood.

As @BlueToff has repeatedly said, Brands hasnt really sold many players. Hes loaned most out until the end of their contracts.

The Dutchman needs to take drastic action this summer and actively sell players to generate big money for Ancelotti's rebuild.

At this moment you'd fancy Harry Redknapp to do a better job at selling players...its almost like an albatross around Brands' neck -- aside from the obvious Iwobi and Delph signings.

However, i wonder if Ancelotti may have someone else in mind to be DOF who is currently employed so theyre having Brands in the role until the end of the season...he saw out the season with PSV after all.

 

[Zatara]

@catcherintherye @Lanolin

As has been mentioned, if Brands has a strategy then it does seem to be a mix and match...influenced by managers perhaps.

If he had a plan to bring in younger players like Branthwaite, Nkounkou and Kean to be developed then there hasnt been enough signings of that u21 age group for it to be noticable.

As @Lanolin states, if his plan was to bring in say 3 u23 players and 3 u21 players a summer then the fans could be excited about us building something long term.

As @catcherintherye says...after 3 years whats he added to the business? Id say hes probably added alot of value to the squad...more than hes spent.

Perhaps he needs 3 more years to sort the youth academy out and with a stable manager to have a clear direction of players suitable for his management.

Again though, if he does stay id like to see him selling players at this point...we have players now that we can shift out for fees which is in part down to him.

 

[catcherintherye]

I think Brands would have been seen in a different light if Gbamin and Kean had both come good.

You could have then made a case that Digne, Godfrey, Gbamin, Doucoure, Kean, Mina and Richarlison was 7/10 of an outfield built for £170mil odd.

As it is now, the team probably has Digne, Godfrey, Doucoure, Richarlison and DCL with possibly Pickford as a long term core.

To then target 5 top players who 'should' come in and hit the ground running you're talking probably another £150-200mil.

Lets say Moshiri floats in another £60mil budget, we'd then need to generate another £100mil+ in sales which is achievable if you bite the bullet -- sell Keane, Kean and Mina and move on a bunch of deadwood.

As @BlueToff has repeatedly said, Brands hasnt really sold many players. Hes loaned most out until the end of their contracts.

The Dutchman needs to take drastic action this summer and actively sell players to generate big money for Ancelotti's rebuild.

At this moment you'd fancy Harry Redknapp to do a better job at selling players...its almost like an albatross around Brands' neck -- aside from the obvious Iwobi and Delph signings.

However, i wonder if Ancelotti may have someone else in mind to be DOF who is currently employed so theyre having Brands in the role until the end of the season...he saw out the season with PSV after all.

I think the problem is, it's actually very difficult to sell players in this market. Whatever his plan is, I don't think it can be based around selling the dead wood for money.

 

[Goat]

@catcherintherye @Lanolin

As has been mentioned, if Brands has a strategy then it does seem to be a mix and match...influenced by managers perhaps.

If he had a plan to bring in younger players like Branthwaite, Nkounkou and Kean to be developed then there hasnt been enough signings of that u21 age group for it to be noticable.

As @Lanolin states, if his plan was to bring in say 3 u23 players and 3 u21 players a summer then the fans could be excited about us building something long term.

As @catcherintherye says...after 3 years whats he added to the business? Id say hes probably added alot of value to the squad...more than hes spent.

Perhaps he needs 3 more years to sort the youth academy out and with a stable manager to have a clear direction of players suitable for his management.

Again though, if he does stay id like to see him selling players at this point...we have players now that we can shift out for fees which is in part down to him.

In your opinion he has players he can shift for fees.

Sadly most of the players you want rid of, he cant.

I mean you keep saying sell Keane, to who? You think clubs are going to have money to burn this window?

I reckon there will be a LOT of loans all over the place this upcoming window, most clubs are skint.

 

[catcherintherye]

@catcherintherye @Lanolin

As has been mentioned, if Brands has a strategy then it does seem to be a mix and match...influenced by managers perhaps.

If he had a plan to bring in younger players like Branthwaite, Nkounkou and Kean to be developed then there hasnt been enough signings of that u21 age group for it to be noticable.

As @Lanolin states, if his plan was to bring in say 3 u23 players and 3 u21 players a summer then the fans could be excited about us building something long term.

As @catcherintherye says...after 3 years whats he added to the business? Id say hes probably added alot of value to the squad...more than hes spent.

Perhaps he needs 3 more years to sort the youth academy out and with a stable manager to have a clear direction of players suitable for his management.

Again though, if he does stay id like to see him selling players at this point...we have players now that we can shift out for fees which is in part down to him.

There is certainly a case that the players are worth more than he's spent (particularly if you discard the deflationary pressure that's coming). The issue is, the on pitch performance is still likely to be 8th. The other way of looking at it is it's likely to be around 60 points. Thats around a 25% increase in 3 years (or 8% year on year). Given the money thats been spent we have to ask ourselves is that enough? Would a 60 to say 75 point increase in 3 years be enough for people? It would mean we were a solidly CL team, but are people willing to waint another 3 years for that, withn 2 likely to now should much improvement!

 

[catcherintherye]

In your opinion he has players he can shift for fees.

Sadly most of the players you want rid of, he cant.

I mean you keep saying sell Keane, to who? You think clubs are going to have money to burn this window?

I reckon there will be a LOT of loans all over the place this upcoming window, most clubs are skint.

I have just said as much. I am not uncritical of Brands at all, but it will be hard to move players on. You can make a case that Delph is just adding to thsoe problems. Iwobi is now too, though to be fair to Brands, before the market crashed we might have been able to get him off the books (albeit for a lower fee).

So it's a difficult discussion.

 

[Curtis]

Cos his Redbull model wouldnt work here.

At Everton he wouldn't have 4 feeder clubs.

That's valid he'd definitely have to concoct a different approach to recruitment. I'd still take a chance on him just due his ample experience just not content with Marcel.

 

[Goat]

I have just said as much. I am not uncritical of Brands at all, but it will be hard to move players on. You can make a case that Delph is just adding to thsoe problems. Iwobi is now too, though to be fair to Brands, before the market crashed we might have been able to get him off the books (albeit for a lower fee).

So it's a difficult discussion.

Delph, I can honestly see the reasoning, I don't care what people say, when fit he was a good player, but he done now, cant stay fit and I doubt he cares about the club, I'm not stupid, most players don't care about the club, but I think Delph takes it to the next level, so it hasn't worked out.

Iwobi is just utter madness, there's not a single thing you can point to, as you say maybe if the window didn't bomb we could have maybe mugged a Palace for 15m or something, but meh, he stinks, ain't nobody touching him.

So how do you sell a player like Delph? Hes on decent money and he hasn't played football for nearly 2 years, good luck Marcel.

Which leads me to Tosun, another player who has done nothing but get injured for the last 2 years, Clubs do not need to buy him, they can just simply loan him for nominal fee, why would any club pay for money for him?

I could go on, but I wont, the list is painfully long.

 

[Connor]

Still nothing on that new contract

Season ends in a month

 

[Nymzee]

Cos his Redbull model wouldnt work here.

At Everton he wouldn't have 4 feeder clubs.

It'd work it'd just cost a bit more.