Martinez new Belgium head coach

[Abraders]

We reached the last sixteen mate. If you consider that "awesome" in Europe then I feel sorry for you because supporting Everton has clearly made you lose it. The last sixteen is in no way, shape or form awesome at all!

The 6-3 was an utter embarrassment to the club, we never looked like winning just playing suicidal football is far from good, especially when it's just being done to get a pat on the head from the side that humiliated you. If you honestly consider that to be the best losing performance you've ever seen from us then I feel sorry for you. I simply can't imagine being excited by conceding 6 (SIX!!!) goals At home.

The 3-3 was a joke, we had zero inability to out games to bed and we did the same thing at Bornmouth that season and numerous other times under Martinez. You say it was the closest we've come to beating a top side news flash mate, Chelsea finished 10th that season. They weren't a top side, loads of teams went to Stamford Bridge and got results that year. You also fail to mention the fact that we blew the lead not once, not twice but THREE F'N times! Don't pretend we were unlucky because we weren't mate.

A good cup run is worthless unless you win it. We are Everton football club mate, we might be run by people who have no ambition but I'm dammed if I'm going to pretend reaching a couple of semi-finals that we never looked like winning is a good thing!

I said it was awesome beating teams like Wolfsburg 4-0 and that Kiev was an embarrassing way to crash out. I was fuming. Considering how poor the squad was though at the time, I think the line up included alcaraz? We did well in the run up.

Honestly the 6-3 was a good game of football. I mean don't get me wrong losing always sucks but enjoyed it much more so than any of the drubbings we've had this season for example.

We were unlucky with a blatantly offside goal counting, even after extra time should have ended. It was hilariously Everton, mind.

Loads of teams go to all the top teams and get results, Everton simply don't because the loser mentality has been instilled since Moyes (perhaps even before). Which is embarrassing again, really.

Honestly I understand your point. If you're not first you're last. I've never seen Everton win anything, but I'd rather us be reaching upper echelons of cups than simply crashing out first round because I don't think we're anywhere near the top 6 let alone top 4, and it gives me a reason to continue being excited about the season.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

I said it was awesome beating teams like Wolfsburg 4-0 and that Kiev was an embarrassing way to crash out. I was fuming. Considering how poor the squad was though at the time, I think the line up included alcaraz? We did well in the run up.

Honestly the 6-3 was a good game of football. I mean don't get me wrong losing always sucks but enjoyed it much more so than any of the drubbings we've had this season for example.

We were unlucky with a blatantly offside goal counting, even after extra time should have ended. It was hilariously Everton, mind.

Loads of teams go to all the top teams and get results, Everton simply don't because the loser mentality has been instilled since Moyes (perhaps even before). Which is embarrassing again, really.

Honestly I understand your point. If you're not first you're last. I've never seen Everton win anything, but I'd rather us be reaching upper echelons of cups than simply crashing out first round because I don't think we're anywhere near the top 6 let alone top 4, and it gives me a reason to continue being excited about the season.

We did ok mate. Apart from Wolfsburg who did we play before we got knocked out though Krasnodoor, Lille and Young Boys! Not exactly setting the bar high is it?! A nice little run, but certainly not worth boasting about.

Different strokes for diffrent folks then mate. If out that 6-3 defeat up with the most angry I've ever been on leaving Goodison. We were never in it. We conceded six goals at home and lost by a margin of three. Not entertaining to me at all.

You can't be in the lead three times, not win and blame bad luck mate. I'm sorry but we showed in that game yet again the ludicrous inability to defend when needed.

At some point when are we gonna stop blaming Moyes for these loser players and their weak mentaily. Moyes isn't anymore responsible for how this side plays now them Martinez is. It's the powers that be who really run this club that are happy for us to be losers. I won't blame any one manager for the pethetic craven players because it's beyond one manager at this stage.

I agree mate, I want us winning again to and that's why I refuse to be impressed when we "almost" (aka not even close) win somthing. We have to stop pretending that half okish cup runs are somthing to be proud of.

 

[LiamG]

How is that remotely similer?! So in your mind, beating a load of lower league sides before going out to the first decent side you play is somthing to be proud of?!

Of course winning any cup game regardless of the opperation is a good, desrirable thing. It's just not somthing i think is worthy of boosting about.

You are the one suggested that because we beat a few lower league sides in the cup we should just shrug off all those humiliating defeats in the league.

All those humiliating defeats. What like the ones we are seeing now?

All teams lose bad games. We beat City 4-0 last season ffs. It happens. It doesn't negate what he achieved or came close to achieving.

How many times in the last year have we come close to winning a pot or getting into the CL?

 

[LiamG]

I said it was awesome beating teams like Wolfsburg 4-0 and that Kiev was an embarrassing way to crash out. I was fuming. Considering how poor the squad was though at the time, I think the line up included alcaraz? We did well in the run up.

Honestly the 6-3 was a good game of football. I mean don't get me wrong losing always sucks but enjoyed it much more so than any of the drubbings we've had this season for example.

We were unlucky with a blatantly offside goal counting, even after extra time should have ended. It was hilariously Everton, mind.

Loads of teams go to all the top teams and get results, Everton simply don't because the loser mentality has been instilled since Moyes (perhaps even before). Which is embarrassing again, really.

Honestly I understand your point. If you're not first you're last. I've never seen Everton win anything, but I'd rather us be reaching upper echelons of cups than simply crashing out first round because I don't think we're anywhere near the top 6 let alone top 4, and it gives me a reason to continue being excited about the season.

At the very least it shows progress and gives us a bit of excitement. Only an idiot would argue it makes no difference.

Frankly beating a load of teams at the end of the season when they were on their holidays like Moyes used to do is more meaningless.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

All those humiliating defeats. What like the ones we are seeing now?

All teams lose bad games. We beat City 4-0 last season ffs. It happens. It doesn't negate what he achieved or came close to achieving.

How many times in the last year have we come close to winning a pot or getting into the CL?

What did we achieve though? 11th twice (we were 13th when Martinez got the bullet) and a semi-final?! Failure. I see you chose to forget that in 14-15 we crashed out of the cups at the third round stage under Martinez to but would rather just compare this season to 15-16 for the obvious reason that your argument looks better that way. Sure all teams have embarrassing defeats but did you look at the list of embarrassing defeats I put on here a few posts back? There was enough embarrassing defeats in those two seasons to last a decade!

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

At the very least it shows progress and gives us a bit of excitement. Only an idiot would argue it makes no difference.

Frankly beating a load of teams at the end of the season when they were on their holidays like Moyes used to do is more meaningless.

Moyes reached a cup final and more then a few semi finals without embarrassing us every other week in the league. He was a failure who achieved nothing to but at least he saved the club from oblivion unlike Martinez and consistently had us doing a dam sight better when Martinez in the league. We didn't win anything or even come close. I'm not going to pretend that reaching a semi-final is an achievement. Especially when we were also getting snotted in the keague ever week at the same time. It made no difference to us did it? All it earned us was another humiliation at Wembley and the Eithed. You'll have to forgive me if it wasn't signing in the streets about it

 

[Abraders]

We did ok mate. Apart from Wolfsburg who did we play before we got knocked out though Krasnodoor, Lille and Young Boys! Not exactly setting the bar high is it?! A nice little run, but certainly not worth boasting about.

Different strokes for diffrent folks then mate. If out that 6-3 defeat up with the most angry I've ever been on leaving Goodison. We were never in it. We conceded six goals at home and lost by a margin of three. Not entertaining to me at all.

You can't be in the lead three times, not win and blame bad luck mate. I'm sorry but we showed in that game yet again the ludicrous inability to defend when needed.

At some point when are we gonna stop blaming Moyes for these loser players and their weak mentaily. Moyes isn't anymore responsible for how this side plays now them Martinez is. It's the powers that be who really run this club that are happy for us to be losers. I won't blame any one manager for the pethetic craven players because it's beyond one manager at this stage.

I agree mate, I want us winning again to and that's why I refuse to be impressed when we "almost" (aka not even close) win somthing. We have to stop pretending that half okish cup runs are somthing to be proud of.

Well I guess we do view it differently, which is fine. Our differing perception of the Chelsea games is a fine example of this.

The club's rotten from the top down so I don't see anything changing for the better anytime soon.

Still think getting to latter stages of the cups and being in Europa etc is more fun than slugging it out for 7th with nothing to play for.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Well I guess we do view it differently, which is fine. Our differing perception of the Chelsea games is a fine example of this.

The club's rotten from the top down so I don't see anything changing for the better anytime soon.

Still think getting to latter stages of the cups and being in Europa etc is more fun than slugging it out for 7th with nothing to play for.

Fair enough with your first point, we'll just agree to differ.

100% agree with you with regards to the club itself. It is rotten to the core and infested with losers from the very too down. Your also right to point out that nothing will change going forward.

Sure a cup run is always nice but if it's going on while we are only winning six to seven home games over the course of a season it better be a bloody good cup run, otherwise it will mean nothing when all said and done. Slogging it out for 7th and no cups to play for is just as pethetic and unacceptable as finishing in the lower part of the table and still not winning anything. The difference is nobody is going to pretend the former is any good but for some reason some fans are willing to except the latter. I can't understand why, both are failures. Saying one is terrible and pining after the other seems just bizzare to me if I'm honest mate.

 

[KaiserEFC]

You must remember diffrent semi finals to me mate because losing them were the most predictable thing I've ever seen. We only even competed at Wembley against Utd because the players ditched the normal style and went rougue. Could of easily won you say? Well we didn't did we. You talk about being two goals ahead at City, at no point whatsoever was I confident that we'd win. Martinez didn't do defense mate, so it was only a matter of time before we conceded at least a brace. Honestly? I thought we'd scrap it to extra time before Man City beat us. We were never gonna win that game, nothing unlucky about it. The better team derservedly won on both occasions, I won't pretended we were unlucky or robbed to make myself feel better. Man Utd were terrible at Wembley and still beat us on the day, what does that day about us?! Sure we had chances to win, didn't take them, didn't derserve to win, the end.

You say we had games that you think mattered more. Well with the greatest of respect, so what! we never actually won a game that "mattered" under Martinez did we?! We lost all of them and were never really in it but were just there to round the numbers up sadly.

I'll except games were always tense under Martinez, because we could be 3-0 up and cruising but I'd be waiting for that spanner to make a ludicrous couple of substitutions and cost us the game. Games were tense in a bad way because they were close running things even when were on top as a direct result of Martinez's playing style.

I don't like us making up the numbers anymore then you do but it's a hell of a lot better then playing in the championship which is were we would of been had Martinez got a fourth season. I want us winning trophies again too mate, but I want the real thing. Not a mirage sold to us by a smiling charlatan who won't ever win us anything or ever come close.

You talk about memorable games under Martinez, there's far more memorable games that I can remember for bad reasons then good. Any game of significance we bottled and all his "achievements" were comfortably outdone by Moyes. Couple of semi finals? Yeah Moyes did that and got to a final once (still not an achievement), Martinez finished 5th? Moyes did that a bunch of times and got 4th once. The difference is finishing 5th wasn't a fluke with Moyes. Honesty, you talk about games that mean somthing. Truth be told I don't rember a single game we played off the top of my head that we played to get to either of those semi-finals even though I went to all of them. That's quite telling no? Not all that memorable really. Oh I'm sure if I looked it up, loads of memories of the games would come back but off the top of my head all I rember about both semi-final days was that I felt defeat was inevitable and I wasn't at all surprised at full time either at the Etihad or at Wembley.

The bit about Wembley you mention is absolutely spot on. From where I was sat, I remember us being dreadful in the first half and it was a matter of when, not if. Second half it was blatantly obvious the players had dropped the “Martinez way” and we played a hell of a lot better and truth be told were unlucky to concede as late as we did.

But at the end of the day it was yet another big game we lost under Martinez, and all the 3 nils against Arsenal in the world wouldn’t have changed that.

 

[LiamG]

Moyes reached a cup final and more then a few semi finals without embarrassing us every other week in the league. He was a failure who achieved nothing to but at least he saved the club from oblivion unlike Martinez and consistently had us doing a dam sight better when Martinez in the league. We didn't win anything or even come close. I'm not going to pretend that reaching a semi-final is an achievement. Especially when we were also getting snotted in the keague ever week at the same time. It made no difference to us did it? All it earned us was another humiliation at Wembley and the Eithed. You'll have to forgive me if it wasn't signing in the streets about it

You seem to only rate a manager if he wins a competition.

We aren't Barcelona. We weren't even the best squad in the 80s. We were a hard working team that had a fantastic few years. Personally i think having your attitude is unrealistic and counter productive as it destroys team spirit.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

You seem to only rate a manager if he wins a competition.

We aren't Barcelona. Personally i think having that attitude is unrealistic and counter productive.

How on earth have you reached that conclusion from anything I've said here? I'm seriously interested at how you arrived at that conclusion.

I'm simply unwilling for managers to lose an unacceptable amount of league games and say "oh but we reached a semi-final didnt we?!". That type of losers mentality is part of the reason why this club is in the state that it's in right now.

How on earth is it unrealistic or counter productive to demand our managers at least seriously compete for trophy's while not losing embarrassingly in the league every other week?! You say we aren't Barcelona and I agree, that's why I'm not demanding we win the league every season or demand that we even make the top four. That being said nor are we Wigan or Bradford who would be celebrating reaching the last four of the FA cup even though their league form is relegation territory.

I'm afraid attitudes like yours are one of the biggest problems we have at this club. We as fans are supposed to just shrug off weekly humiliation in the league so we can play tippy tappy football and get patronizing pats on the head from teams who've just spanked us, just so our manager and some of our fans can boast about our style of play. Menwhile the rest of us who pay to watch that garbage are supposed to clap our hands with delight when we reach the semi-finals of a cup when we all know we won't win as a direct result of said managers incompetence and then are supoosed to sit tight for rest of the season when we only win about ten league games.

 

[LiamG]

How on earth have you reached that conclusion from anything I've said here? I'm seriously interested at how you arrived at that conclusion.

I'm simply unwilling for managers to lose an unacceptable amount of league games and say "oh but we reached a semi-final didnt we?!". That type of losers mentality is part of the reason why this club is in the state that it's in right now.

How on earth is it unrealistic or counter productive to demand our managers at least seriously compete for trophy's? You say we aren't Barcelona and I agree, that's why I'm not demanding we win the league every season or demand that we even make the top four. That being said nor are we Wigan or Hull who would be celebrating reaching the last four of the FA cup even though their league form is relegation territory.

I'm afraid attitudes like yours are one of the biggest problems we have at this club. We as fans are supposed to just shrug off weekly humiliation in the league so we can play tippy tappy football and get patronizing pats on the head from teams who've just spanked us, just so some of our fans can boast about our style of play. Menwhile the rest of us who pay to watch that garbage are supposed to clap our hands with delight when we reach the semi-finals of a cup when we all know we won't win as a direct result of said managers incompetence and then are supoosed to sit tight for rest of the season when we only win about ten league games.

How is reaching finals and semi finals not seriously competing for trophies.

What you want is to win and anything else is failure. More or less your words.

Its counter productive because change isn't always for the better. Of course I would like to win everything but from the position we are in its not possible, even with all the money in the world. The only thing we can ask for is progression. Reaching the latter stages of cups and being able to go toe to toe with the top clubs is progression. Yes Bobby threw away easy points and he should have taken the blame for that but he also developed a team that was capable of winning things. This current team is only capable of 7th. Just like the vast majority of Moyes teams 2007 one excluded. Today,'s team don't stand a chance any time they play a good team, not because they are bottlers, not because they were unlucky, not because the manager made a tactical mistake but because they simply aren't good enough.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

How is reaching finals and semi finals not seriously competing for trophies.

What you want is to win and anything else is failure. More or less your words.

Its counter productive because change isn't always for the better. Of course I would like to win everything but from the position we are in its not possible, even with all the money in the world. The only thing we can ask for is progression. Reaching the latter stages of cups and being able to go toe to toe with the top clubs is progression. Yes Bobby threw away easy points and he should have taken the blame for that but he also developed a team that was capable of winning things. This current team is only capable of 7th. Just like the vast majority of Moyes teams 2007 one excluded. Today,'s team don't stand a chance any time they play a good team, not because they are bottlers, not because they were unlucky, not because the manager made a tactical mistake but because they simply aren't good enough.

When you don't play anyone of significance and get spanked by the first decent side ypu face who's not having a nightmare that season reaching the last four is not somthing to boast about. Do you rember who we faced to reach the top four? I mentioned on earier in great detail for you. It was nothing to be proud of. Yes cup runs like that are desirable but not at the price of the league form. We should be looking to compete for cups like that and have the minimum of a 7th place finish.

You have proven that you don't have a clue what your talking about when you say the vast majority Moyes teams only reaches 7th. Oh yeah, All except the time we got 4th, the two times we got 5th and the three to four times we got 6th.

We didn't "compete" for anything. Or go for to toe with anyone because we lost every game of significantce we played under Martinez. We lost big games because the players weren't good enough. We lost badly because of the way the manager made us play.

I'm not going to pretend reaching the semi-finals of any cup is an achievement. It's not, nor is finishing 7th but at least it means winning some games that way.

 

[LiamG]

When you don't play anyone of significance and get spanked by the first decent side ypu face who's not having a nightmare that season reaching the last four is not somthing to boast about. Do you rember who we faced to reach the top four? I mentioned on earier in great detail for you. It was nothing to be proud of. Yes cup runs like that are desirable but not at the price of the league form. We should be looking to compete for cups like that and have the minimum of a 7th place finish.

You have proven that you don't have a clue what your talking about when you say the vast majority Moyes teams only reaches 7th. Oh yeah, All except the time we got 4th, the two times we got 5th and the three to four times we got 6th.

We didn't "compete" for anything. Or go for to toe with anyone because we lost every game of significantce we played under Martinez. We lost big games because the players weren't good enough. We lost badly because of the way the manager made us play.

I'm not going to pretend reaching the semi-finals of any cup is an achievement. It's not, nor is finishing 7th but at least it means winning some games that way.

Who spanked us? Now you are just talking nonsense and you can only beat the teams in front. Last season we went out to similarly so called easy teams.

Moyes was here for 11 years. His average placing was 8th and we even make jokes on here about the 7th place trophy because of his tenure. He was a decent manager but we could have had him in charge for another 10 years and still not won anything.

Martinez was a manager who I thought could deliver us a trophy. Agreed he was also more likely yo get us relegated but that was a risk I was willing to take.

 

[LiamG]

Btw if all you care about is winning some games.

Both Martinez and Moyes had very similar win %. Martinez 42.7%, Moyes 42.08%.