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Martinez new Belgium head coach

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I respectfully disagree.

Last season we beat Man City 4-0, Koeman looked to have steadied the ship and we appeared to be on the right tracks and back in Europe.

He then made some appalling signings in the summer which backfired on him massively.

If you are going to make excuses for Martinez, then you need to make them for Koeman as well, otherwise you appear to be not thinking it through.

Anybody can have a cup run, I thought that was very obvious. Get the right draw and you can go far in a competition. nobody remember the semi or quarter finalists though, so you either get to the final or you have failed.
We were awful last year too. We just went through a little bit of a purple patch after moving Davies forward and Barkley on to the wing.

Until Christmas we were dire and were again for the last couple of months.

The difference between Martinez and Koeman was when Martinez was dropping points we were unlucky, when Koeman was dropping points I was wondering where we would get our next goal from never mind points.

I'm not making excuses for Martinez. He made mistakes. Plenty of them in my opinion however many would probably still agree with him on many of those calls.

What I am saying is on balance Martinez was doing well. Think about it this way. We sacked our manager for a midtable finish after getting us to two semi-finals, both of which we should have and almost did win against clubs with far more resources than us. We were acting like fans of one of the top clubs with bags of money where that was an average or disappointing season. It wasn't. I would kill for Martinez's worst season instead of watching what has been on offer for the last two.

Not fans of a club that hasn't won a pot in over 20 years with zero financial backing.
 
We were awful last year too. We just went through a little bit of a purple patch after moving Davies forward and Barkley on to the wing.

Until Christmas we were dire and were again for the last couple of months.

The difference between Martinez and Koeman was when Martinez was dropping points we were unlucky, when Koeman was dropping points I was wondering where we would get our next goal from never mind points.

I'm not making excuses for Martinez. He made mistakes. Plenty of them in my opinion however many would probably still agree with him on many of those calls.

What I am saying is on balance Martinez was doing well. Think about it this way. We sacked our manager for a midtable finish after getting us to two semi-finals, both of which we should have and almost did win against clubs with far more resources than us. We were acting like fans of one of the top clubs with bags of money where that was an average or disappointing season. It wasn't. I would kill for Martinez's worst season instead of watching what has been on offer for the last two.

Not fans of a club that hasn't won a pot in over 20 years with zero financial backing.
We won more home games last season then we managed in the second and third year of Martinez run combined and even now during this utterly terrible season we've already won more home games then we did in either 14-15 or 15-16, with five more games to spare. Reaching cup semi-finals and the Europa league last 32 is not an achievement. If it was then David Moyes by that logic was well more successful. The one and only good league campaign we had under Martinez was mearly a continuation of Moyes having us finish 6th the previous season with a couple of good additions and a new style that was found out before the season was over. Which is about were we were as a side at the time. Good enough to be best of the rest but win sweet fa!
 
We won more home games last season then we managed in the second and third year of Martinez run combined and even now during this utterly terrible season we've already won more home games then we did in either 14-15 or 15-16, with five more games to spare. Reaching cup semi-finals and the Europa league last 32 is not an achievement. If it was then David Moyes by that logic was well more successful. The one and only good league campaign we had under Martinez was mearly a continuation of Moyes having us finish 6th the previous season with a couple of good additions and a new style that was found out before the season was over. Which is about were we were as a side at the time. Good enough to be best of the rest but win sweet fa!
Its been a while since I was able to get to games in person so perhaps I have a different perspective.

I'm not that fussed about our home form. I'm more concerned when our seasons are effectively over by January having not played one game that actually meant anything.

You say those games meant nothing. Both of the semi finals had we won we would have been favourites to win a cup for the first time in two decades. They meant something.
 
Its been a while since I was able to get to games in person so perhaps I have a different perspective.

I'm not that fussed about our home form. I'm more concerned when our seasons are effectively over by January having not played one game that actually meant anything.

You say those games meant nothing. Both of the semi finals had we won we would have been favourites to win a cup for the first time in two decades. They meant something.
Forget home form in itself mate, we managed 12 league wins in the entirely of 14-15 and exacally the same in 15-16 and Martinez wasn't the manager for the last one. Twenty-four league victorys both home and away in two seasons is a disgrace. I can only say as someone going home and away that going the match was a misrible experience under Martinez in the last two seasons. I know some people just say loads of league games are meaningless if you cant get top four or anything but while I'm going home and away week after week I'd like to think we'd win more then we lose and put in decent efforts most weeks. Results matter, it makes going a better experience. Every game Everton play means somthing to me. Sure some games mean a lot more but losing makes me pissed and we lost far to many under Martinez.

Getting to semi-finals means zero mate because we didn't win them. All very well saying they would of meant somthing had we won the cup, we didn't so they don't. Home form and away form (because our away form was even worse with 11 away league wins during two seasons) matters a lot to me. Sure I'd sooner take a cup and twelfth place over fifth or even four and no cup but the reailty is league games are your bread and butter and if you don't win a cup all those league games you lost become even more unacceptable. If Martinez had won ANYTHING I'd be the first to defend him but we were never going to beat Man Utd or Man City the cup semi-finals under Berto. It was a matter of when and not if we were going to lose both of them.
 
Forget home form in itself mate, we managed 12 league wins in the entirely of 14-15 and exacally the same in 15-16 and Martinez wasn't the manager for the last one. Twenty-four league victorys both home and away in two seasons is a disgrace. I can only say as someone going home and away that going the match was a misrible experience under Martinez in the last two seasons. I know some people just say loads of league games are meaningless if you cant get top four or anything but while I'm going home and away week after week I'd like to think we'd win more then we lose and put in decent efforts most weeks. Results matter, it makes going a better experience. Every game Everton play means somthing to me. Sure some games mean a lot more but losing makes me pissed and we lost far to many under Martinez.

Getting to semi-finals means zero mate because we didn't win them. All very well saying they would of meant somthing had we won the cup, we didn't so they don't. Home form and away form (because our away form was even worse with 11 away league wins during two seasons) matters a lot to me. Sure I'd sooner take a cup and twelfth place over fifth or even four and no cup but the reailty is league games are your bread and butter and if you don't win a cup all those league games you lost become even more unacceptable. If Martinez had won ANYTHING I'd be the first to defend him but we were never going to beat Man Utd or Man City the cup semi-finals under Berto. It was a matter of when and not if we were going to lose both of them.
Rubbish. Both of the semi final games we lost we could have easily won. We were 2 goals ahead in the city one and level on away goals. Had we scored another it was gsme over. We unfortunately lost the Utd one because Rom had an off day. We had enough chances.

The point was we played games that mattefed. Games that were genuinely tense and exciting because of what was at stake.

I guess thats the difference. I just can't get that excited over meaningless league games. If we are chasing 4th like we were under Martinez first year then every game is tense, every game matters.

When we are just making up the numbers I find it hard to care that much but I do accept it is different when watching live.

I remember us winning trophies and any manager who comes close to making that a reality is doing well. I don't remember meaningless league games.
 

Rubbish. Both of the semi final games we lost we could have easily won. We were 2 goals ahead in the city one and level on away goals. Had we scored another it was gsme over. We unfortunately lost the Utd one because Rom had an off day. We had enough chances.

The point was we played games that mattefed. Games that were genuinely tense and exciting because of what was at stake.

I guess thats the difference. I just can't get that excited over meaningless league games. If we are chasing 4th like we were under Martinez first year then every game is tense, every game matters.

When we are just making up the numbers I find it hard to care that much but I do accept it is different when watching live.

I remember us winning trophies and any manager who comes close to making that a reality is doing well. I don't remember meaningless league games.
You must remember diffrent semi finals to me mate because losing them were the most predictable thing I've ever seen. We only even competed at Wembley against Utd because the players ditched the normal style and went rougue. Could of easily won you say? Well we didn't did we. You talk about being two goals ahead at City, at no point whatsoever was I confident that we'd win. Martinez didn't do defense mate, so it was only a matter of time before we conceded at least a brace. Honestly? I thought we'd scrap it to extra time before Man City beat us. We were never gonna win that game, nothing unlucky about it. The better team derservedly won on both occasions, I won't pretended we were unlucky or robbed to make myself feel better. Man Utd were terrible at Wembley and still beat us on the day, what does that day about us?! Sure we had chances to win, didn't take them, didn't derserve to win, the end.

You say we had games that you think mattered more. Well with the greatest of respect, so what! we never actually won a game that "mattered" under Martinez did we?! We lost all of them and were never really in it but were just there to round the numbers up sadly.

I'll except games were always tense under Martinez, because we could be 3-0 up and cruising but I'd be waiting for that spanner to make a ludicrous couple of substitutions and cost us the game. Games were tense in a bad way because they were close running things even when were on top as a direct result of Martinez's playing style.

I don't like us making up the numbers anymore then you do but it's a hell of a lot better then playing in the championship which is were we would of been had Martinez got a fourth season. I want us winning trophies again too mate, but I want the real thing. Not a mirage sold to us by a smiling charlatan who won't ever win us anything or ever come close.

You talk about memorable games under Martinez, there's far more memorable games that I can remember for bad reasons then good. Any game of significance we bottled and all his "achievements" were comfortably outdone by Moyes. Couple of semi finals? Yeah Moyes did that and got to a final once (still not an achievement), Martinez finished 5th? Moyes did that a bunch of times and got 4th once. The difference is finishing 5th wasn't a fluke with Moyes. Honesty, you talk about games that mean somthing. Truth be told I don't rember a single game we played off the top of my head that we played to get to either of those semi-finals even though I went to all of them. That's quite telling no? Not all that memorable really. Oh I'm sure if I looked it up, loads of memories of the games would come back but off the top of my head all I rember about both semi-final days was that I felt defeat was inevitable and I wasn't at all surprised at full time either at the Etihad or at Wembley.
 
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We were awful last year too. We just went through a little bit of a purple patch after moving Davies forward and Barkley on to the wing.

Until Christmas we were dire and were again for the last couple of months.

The difference between Martinez and Koeman was when Martinez was dropping points we were unlucky, when Koeman was dropping points I was wondering where we would get our next goal from never mind points.

I'm not making excuses for Martinez. He made mistakes. Plenty of them in my opinion however many would probably still agree with him on many of those calls.

What I am saying is on balance Martinez was doing well. Think about it this way. We sacked our manager for a midtable finish after getting us to two semi-finals, both of which we should have and almost did win against clubs with far more resources than us. We were acting like fans of one of the top clubs with bags of money where that was an average or disappointing season. It wasn't. I would kill for Martinez's worst season instead of watching what has been on offer for the last two.

Not fans of a club that hasn't won a pot in over 20 years with zero financial backing.

But he really wasn't mate. As I have already said, anybody can have a cup run. All you need is the luck of the draw, such as Leyton orient at home for instance!

And yes, we sacked our manager for 2 mid table finishes because that was a backward step from where we were when he took over, added to the fact that we won 5 home games all season and the players at this point had completely sussed him out and a complete blagger who was out of his depth.

You clearly are struggling to remember just how dire it was. Yet, you seem to remember how dire it was under Koeman, who had taken over an unhappy camp with a lot of disillusioned players which was 100% down to Blagger Bobby.

His first season with Moyes side, where he added Barry, McCArthy and Lukaku was undeniably great. But I am afraid it was all downhill after that.
 
We won more home games last season then we managed in the second and third year of Martinez run combined and even now during this utterly terrible season we've already won more home games then we did in either 14-15 or 15-16, with five more games to spare. Reaching cup semi-finals and the Europa league last 32 is not an achievement. If it was then David Moyes by that logic was well more successful. The one and only good league campaign we had under Martinez was mearly a continuation of Moyes having us finish 6th the previous season with a couple of good additions and a new style that was found out before the season was over. Which is about were we were as a side at the time. Good enough to be best of the rest but win sweet fa!

I think this posts was one if the issues with Martinez, the home fans got many Saturdays ruined and turned very quickly.

Away fans had a very good time in comparison to the last few years as we always looked capable of getting results away and often did.

It also started going pear shaped around Christmas as frustration set in but if the fans had been more patient I think we’d have won that FA cup. They only played for half a game as confidence was shattered and the players had downed tools at that point and still should have won the s/f if it hadn’t been for Lukaku’s misses.

Also, if Moyes was responsible for Martinez’s first season surely Martinez is responsible for Koeman’s good performance in the league in his first season.

Give me Martinez over Sam, Koeman and Moyes.
 
I think this posts was one if the issues with Martinez, the home fans got many Saturdays ruined and turned very quickly.

Away fans had a very good time in comparison to the last few years as we always looked capable of getting results away and often did.

It also started going pear shaped around Christmas as frustration set in but if the fans had been more patient I think we’d have won that FA cup. They only played for half a game as confidence was shattered and the players had downed tools at that point and still should have won the s/f if it hadn’t been for Lukaku’s misses.

Also, if Moyes was responsible for Martinez’s first season surely Martinez is responsible for Koeman’s good performance in the league in his first season.

Give me Martinez over Sam, Koeman and Moyes.
Not true mate. The idea that we won loads of games on the road is a myth. We won less games away from home then we won at home during his second and third season we won five away games in 14-15 and six in 15-16. The records show we won 13 home games during the time of 14-16 and 11 away from home during that same time. Nobody turned on Martinez in a big way at Goodison at all in 2014-15 and it was only in the latter mouths of 15-16 that Goodison started to turn on him. I go home and away mate and I don't recognise the description your giving for following the blues under Martinez.

You want to give Martinez credit for Moonheads first season? Sound, I'm no fan of Koeman's either who is another moron. You say you'd sooner have Martinez then Moyes at his best? Well more fool you then because while Moyes also achieved nothing at least we won more then we lost most season and unlike Martinez we never spent two seasons back to back in the bottom half of the table. Nor apart from 03-04 were we ever in relegation danger.

Both Martinez and Koeman are terrible managers and I've nothing postive to say about either of them. I'd happily take Big Sam sort term any day then have Martinez back here long term with Kenwright waxing lryics about how wonderful the guy is while we finish 14th and celebrate getting to the quarter finals of the league cup! Moyes was the best of a bad lot and I'd never want him back here. If we hope to ever be successful again we need to start looking for a better calibre of managers then the last few gang of losers have been.

BTW the players downing tools was a disgrace. I'm obviously no Martinez fan but these cowards we have playing for us seem to down tools every time things get though.
 
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But he really wasn't mate. As I have already said, anybody can have a cup run. All you need is the luck of the draw, such as Leyton orient at home for instance!

And yes, we sacked our manager for 2 mid table finishes because that was a backward step from where we were when he took over, added to the fact that we won 5 home games all season and the players at this point had completely sussed him out and a complete blagger who was out of his depth.

You clearly are struggling to remember just how dire it was. Yet, you seem to remember how dire it was under Koeman, who had taken over an unhappy camp with a lot of disillusioned players which was 100% down to Blagger Bobby.

His first season with Moyes side, where he added Barry, McCArthy and Lukaku was undeniably great. But I am afraid it was all downhill after that.
But he didn't have the luck of the draw. We best good teams along the way including Chelsea. We topped a very strong Europa league group. You can fluke one cup run. In 3 seasons Bobby had 3 and won the FA cup before joining us.

Some just weren't capable of doing what he wanted either down to age or injuries. He needed to rebuild the squad. The Moyes team had only one good season left in them and injuries also hurt us.

That doesn't make him a blagger.

The fact that no one has been able to get a tune out of these players shows where the problems were.

Did he make mistakes. Sure. I thought he was slow to move players on. But no manager is perfect all the time. Even Pep and Fergie have had bad seasons.
 

Not true mate. The idea that we won loads of games on the road is a myth. We won less games away from home then we won at home during his second and third season we won five away games in 14-15 and six in 15-16. The records show we won 13 home games during the time of 14-16 and 11 away from home during that same time. Nobody turned on Martinez in a big way at Goodison at all in 2014-15 and it was only in the latter mouths of 15-16 that Goodison started to turn on him. I go home and away mate and I don't recognise the description your giving for following the blues under Martinez.

You want to give Martinez credit for Moonheads first season? Sound, I'm no fan of Koeman's either who is another moron. You say you'd sooner have Martinez then Moyes at his best? Well more fool you then because while Moyes also achieved nothing at least we won more then we lost most season and unlike Martinez we never spent two seasons back to back in the bottom half of the table. Nor apart from 03-04 were we ever in relegation danger.

Both Martinez and Koeman are terrible managers and I've nothing postive to say about either of them. I'd happily take Big Sam sort term any day then have Martinez back here long term with Kenwright waxing lryics about how wonderful the guy is while we finish 14th and celebrate getting to the quarter finals of the league cup! Moyes was the best of a bad lot and I'd never want him back here. If we hope to ever be successful again we need to start looking for a better calibre of managers then the last few gang of losers have been.

BTW the players downing tools was a disgrace. I'm obviously no Martinez fan but these cowards we have playing for us seem to down tools every time things get though.
I'll make one last argument for Martinez.

He is the only manager in almost 30 years I thought we had a chance when playing the top teams without parking the bus and hoping to nick it.
 
But he didn't have the luck of the draw. We best good teams along the way including Chelsea. We topped a very strong Europa league group. You can fluke one cup run. In 3 seasons Bobby had 3 and won the FA cup before joining us.

Some just weren't capable of doing what he wanted either down to age or injuries. He needed to rebuild the squad. The Moyes team had only one good season left in them and injuries also hurt us.

That doesn't make him a blagger.

The fact that no one has been able to get a tune out of these players shows where the problems were.

Did he make mistakes. Sure. I thought he was slow to move players on. But no manager is perfect all the time. Even Pep and Fergie have had bad seasons.
You are comparing him to Pep and Fergie ??? not fit to be mentioned in the same sentence !! And at the end of the great "72 points" season he bottled the champs league spot btw
 
You are comparing him to Pep and Fergie ??? not fit to be mentioned in the same sentence !! And at the end of the great "72 points" season he bottled the champs league spot btw
He didn't bottle anything. We won something like 8 games in a row to just go ahead of arsenal by beating them.

Unfortunately they had a very easy run in and won their last 7 games.

For us to have pipped them we would have need to break the at the time all time record for consecutive wins.

I never buy into this bottle argument. Bottle is when you lose something you should win. Like when we lost to Wigan under Moyes.
 
But he didn't have the luck of the draw. We best good teams along the way including Chelsea. We topped a very strong Europa league group. You can fluke one cup run. In 3 seasons Bobby had 3 and won the FA cup before joining us.

Some just weren't capable of doing what he wanted either down to age or injuries. He needed to rebuild the squad. The Moyes team had only one good season left in them and injuries also hurt us.

That doesn't make him a blagger.

The fact that no one has been able to get a tune out of these players shows where the problems were.

Did he make mistakes.
Sure. I thought he was slow to move players on. But no manager is perfect all the time. Even Pep and Fergie have had bad seasons.

Alcaraz, Kone, Cleverley, Atsu, Traore, McGeady....basically every signing bar Lukaku, McCarthy and Barry.
 

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