2018/19 Mason Holgate

[VentureBrosEFC]

Forgot about Kenny he certainly struggles at times at well but Davies is decent enough. Today though Holgate was very much the weak point in our buildup play and he will be dropped if it doesn't improve

Fair enough but I feel you'll be forced to backtrack by the end of the season.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Fair enough but I feel you'll be forced to backtrack by the end of the season.

I hope. Just for reference last season he had 65% which was only ahead of Bolasie DCL and Niasse. Jags was 75% and Williams 80% and they are hardly top class ball playing defenders. There is a big need for improvement

 

[Yorkie89]

Distribution woeful, but the lad is solid. Pushes Capt Jags further down the pecking order too so it is indeed all gravy.

Don’t say it’s all gravy nearl had a heart attack thinking big sam was back for a minute

 

[VentureBrosEFC]

I hope. Just for reference last season he had 65% which was only ahead of Bolasie DCL and Niasse. Jags was 75% and Williams 80% and they are hardly top class ball playing defenders. There is a big need for improvement

I think it's more to do with what type of passes each were attempting but I'm not looking at those stats. Stats like that are very open ended imo and aren't really indicative of anything unless you put context to them unless there was some sort of filter they were put through?

 

[TheBigIguana]

I think it's more to do with what type of passes each were attempting but I'm not looking at those stats. Stats like that are very open ended imo and aren't really indicative of anything unless you put context to them unless there was some sort of filter they were put through?

I'll attempt to add some context. Generally center backs and deeper center mids have the highest percentages because they play a lot of relatively safe balls to build possession. So realistically he should not be at a similar percentage to forwards because those players will be playing much riskier passes in an attempt to create chances. So the best comparison is to other center backs and specifically other ones in the same team as more likely than not they will have similar responsibilities in the same system. He falls short here as I noted previously and that is especially disappointing because Jags and Williams are average on the ball.

Now it is possible that something other than ability could dictate the gap but I personally doubt that Holgate is for example playing a lot higher percentage of attacking passes because honestly Jags goes long way too often and he has better numbers. For me he is just poor at playing the ball at the moment and the numbers support that

 

[VentureBrosEFC]

I'll attempt to add some context. Generally center backs and deeper center mids have the highest percentages because they play a lot of relatively safe balls to build possession. So realistically he should not be at a similar percentage to forwards because those players will be playing much riskier passes in an attempt to create chances. So the best comparison is to other center backs and specifically other ones in the same team as more likely than not they will have similar responsibilities in the same system. He falls short here as I noted previously and that is especially disappointing because Jags and Williams are average on the ball.

Now it is possible that something other than ability could dictate the gap but I personally doubt that Holgate is for example playing a lot higher percentage of attacking passes because honestly Jags goes long way too often and he has better numbers. For me he is just poor at playing the ball at the moment and the numbers support that

That's not what I meant by context. I was thinking if there was some model showing he was attempting passes of the same difficulty of the other cbs your point would be well made. However I maintain that Mason simply attempts to split the lines (based on perception not statistical evidence) more often than the other two that just get rid to the nearest teammate asap.

Just to offer another example of what I'm talking about, Niasse doesn't attempt many difficult passes. Does he have a better pass % than Mason?

 

[TheBigIguana]

That's not what I meant by context. I was thinking if there was some model showing he was attempting passes of the same difficulty of the other cbs your point would be well made. However I maintain that Mason simply attempts to split the lines (based on perception not statistical evidence) more often than the other two that just get rid to the nearest teammate asap.

Just to offer another example of what I'm talking about, Niasse doesn't attempt many difficult passes. Does he have a better pass % than Mason?

I don't have the desire to look at other games but just today he had slightly higher percentage of forward passes than Keane (about 70% vs 80%) and a similar edge on passes into the attacking and middle thirds which in my opinion isn't enough to justify the large gap in accuracy. Also the decision making to try to thread in some of the passes is part of the problem as really he should be trying to do that only when it is clearly on. At the moment our system doesn't really ask the center backs to start attacks with very aggressive passes like Spurs and sometimes City do.

 

[VentureBrosEFC]

I don't have the desire to look at other games but just today he had slightly higher percentage of forward passes than Keane (about 70% vs 80%) and a similar edge on passes into the attacking and middle thirds which in my opinion isn't enough to justify the large gap in accuracy. Also the decision making to try to thread in some of the passes is part of the problem as really he should be trying to do that only when it is clearly on. At the moment our system doesn't really ask the center backs to start attacks with very aggressive passes like Spurs and sometimes City do.

I think this is more down to the fact that we haven't faced anyone who presses up really high.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I think this is more down to the fact that we haven't faced anyone who presses up really high.

Might be true. I still don't fancy Holgate to turn into Alderweireld when we do have that problem

 

[trueblue84]

Don’t say it’s all gravy nearl had a heart attack thinking big sam was back for a minute

 

[Prevenger17]

Plays the ball v well, but still shakey defensively

 

[DanEFC92]

Plays the ball v well, but still shakey defensively

Thought the opposite. Did a fair few crappy wee chip balls to no one.

 

[hibbo'sclass]

Holgate was class today.

 

[itsnowak]

Easy to sum up his game today:

-Distribution was crap (other than that one nice pass in the second). Needs to keep it simple and get rid of the hoof ball
-Fix your heading mate!!
-Defensively sound

very impressed today

 

[Lanolin]

He’s ok at the moment. Nowhere near as good as stones was at the same age, probably not as good as zouma and Mina who are not that much older but ok in his own right. Nowhere near what some people claim he is though.