Migrant Crisis

[oldblue]

The point is though that allowing people to settle is not the way in which mass migrations due to disaster or war have historically been dealt with; what happens is (as is happening with Syrians now who flee to the south and Jordan, rather than to Turkey) that camps are established in the nearest "safe" country and then supported by that country and the international community.

What is happening now is that Turkey, where Erdogan holds a vast amount of personal responsibility for all of this horror, is getting rid of some of its responsibilities for these people and is shooing the refugees towards Europe. Refugee camps should be established on those Greek islands and the EU should pay for it all (ideally by seizing the funds that Erdogan and his chums have stashed over here).

I agree with that but the issue is always exactly what these refugee camps are and how much stability and security they provide. A world with a clear enforacble international agreement on how civilian refugees from conflict are treated would be great. But there will always be people who don't see it as their business to provide. The nearest safe country is where most people will flee, if they don't see it as their responsibilty then how do we enforce this? Sadly we have to do what we can and accept how things have developed. As much needs to be put in place to guarantee the burden is shared but unfortunately I feel the burden will often fall on those people least able to cope. Until we change the way the world works I am not sure what we can do.
None of this is to say we shouldn't work towards complete fairness, just that I can't face people suffering in the mean time

 

[peteblue]

I agree with that but the issue is always exactly what these refugee camps are and how much stability and security they provide. A world with a clear enforacble international agreement on how civilian refugees from conflict are treated would be great. But there will always be people who don't see it as their business to provide. The nearest safe country is where most people will flee, if they don't see it as their responsibilty then how do we enforce this? Sadly we have to do what we can and accept how things have developed. As much needs to be put in place to guarantee the burden is shared but unfortunately I feel the burden will often fall on those people least able to cope. Until we change the way the world works I am not sure what we can do.

Good luck with that........

 

[Blue 1]

You know what would be a good idea?

I live in the South West and there are so many houses down here owned by rich Londoners that sit empty for 90% of the time.

Use them to house refugees!

Problem solved!

 

[oldblue]

Good luck with that........

thanks... I see your charity has not lasted the day

 

[tsubaki]

I agree with that but the issue is always exactly what these refugee camps are and how much stability and security they provide. A world with a clear enforacble international agreement on how civilian refugees from conflict are treated would be great. But there will always be people who don't see it as their business to provide. The nearest safe country is where most people will flee, if they don't see it as their responsibilty then how do we enforce this? Sadly we have to do what we can and accept how things have developed. As much needs to be put in place to guarantee the burden is shared but unfortunately I feel the burden will often fall on those people least able to cope. Until we change the way the world works I am not sure what we can do.

The Turks are doing something - as they should, given what their leadership has been and is guilty of - but what we should do in Europe is set people up in camps close to where they land, support them, make sure there is no cost to the host countries (mainly Greece, Spain and Italy who are already in a financial mess) and work to sort out the problems in the countries that these refugees come from (difficult in the case of Syria, less so in terms of Eritrea).

 

[oldblue]

The Turks are doing something - as they should, given what their leadership has been and is guilty of - but what we should do in Europe is set people up in camps close to where they land, support them, make sure there is no cost to the host countries (mainly Greece, Spain and Italy who are already in a financial mess) and work to sort out the problems in the countries that these refugees come from (difficult in the case of Syria, less so in terms of Eritrea).

yep. in short term I totally agree

 

[Mrk]

That's confusing migrants with refugees - you can't really compare the two.

Migrants move voluntarily for a better life/job opportunities. Refugees move to avoid being killed.

 

[Blue 1]

That's confusing migrants with refugees - you can't really compare the two.

Migrants move voluntarily for a better life/job opportunities. Refugees move to avoid being killed.

Most people conflate the two, unfortunately. The "r" word has dropped from our lexicon somewhat of late, replaced by "asylum seeker". Usually prefixed by "bogus".

 

[oldblue]

Most people conflate the two, unfortunately. The "r" word has dropped from our lexicon somewhat of late, replaced by "asylum seeker". Usually prefixed by "bogus".

and which of the categories you fall into will have a lot to do with the media's most recent obsession in terms of scapegoating

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

I meant they won't be forced out of housing to accomodate asylum seekers.

I agree that they will be placed in areas that can least afford to house people but they are never given priority in my experience

Asylum seekers will be given priority due to them being 'Statutory homeless (unintentionally with priority need)' and placed in the highest category ('A')

https://www.propertypoolplus.org.uk/Data/ASPPages/1/1092.aspx

Those who are eligible for the bedroom tax by living in under-occupied residences are Cat. 'B'

Bedroom tax payers who default (usually because they can't afford it) are classed as: 'Homeless (intentional with priority need)' and are placed in Cat. 'C' Or even Category 'F' if they've fallen behind on their rents.

Where will these properties be made available for them & at who's expense? Or do you think this Govt's gonna build more *snorts* affordable houses? Because they're not. You know it, and so do I.

All too often, I've seen immigrants (or what-have-ya) on the news & in the papers complaining about their accommodation, with far less coverage given to those British nationals forced out of their homes by the bedroom tax and now living in cramped conditions in B&B's for much longer than the law stipulates, with very little (or no) remedy, or recourse for them.

You know what would be a good idea?

I live in the South West and there are so many houses down here owned by rich Londoners that sit empty for 90% of the time.

Use them to house refugees!

Problem solved!

There's plenty of British nationals living in the SW that can't even afford to rent those houses. Why should the taxpayers foot the bill for asylum seekers who won't be allowed to earn a wage over British nationals to line the pockets of those already holding the riches of Croesus?

Look after our own first & foremost. They already get a sh1te deal as it is.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

That's confusing migrants with refugees - you can't really compare the two.

Migrants move voluntarily for a better life/job opportunities. Refugees move to avoid being killed.

The child was travelling from a country (Turkey) our home office says is safe.

 

[Mrk]

The child was travelling from a country (Turkey) our home office says is safe.

They're still classed as refugees because they (assumedly) hadn't settled in Turkey.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

They're still classed as refugees because they (assumedly) hadn't settled in Turkey.

They'd been in Turkey for over a year;

According to Abdullah Kurdi's Facebook page, he was originally from Damascus in Syria but had been living in Istanbul, Turkey. He uploaded this photograph of himself in Turkey in August 2014

Hence;

The bit I struggle to understand are those who have fled the immediate danger, but continue to risk their lives in pursuit for a better life, rather than the initial prompt which was a safe life.

 

[oldblue]

Asylum seekers will be given priority due to them being 'Statutory homeless (unintentionally with priority need)' and placed in the highest category ('A')

https://www.propertypoolplus.org.uk/Data/ASPPages/1/1092.aspx

Those who are eligible for the bedroom tax by living in under-occupied residences are Cat. 'B'

Bedroom tax payers who default (usually because they can't afford it) are classed as: 'Homeless (intentional with priority need)' and are placed in Cat. 'C' Or even Category 'F' if they've fallen behind on their rents.

Where will these properties be made available for them & at who's expense? Or do you think this Govt's gonna build more *snorts* affordable houses? Because they're not. You know it, and so do I.

All too often, I've seen immigrants (or what-have-ya) on the news & in the papers complaining about their accommodation, with far less coverage given to those British nationals forced out of their homes by the bedroom tax and now living in cramped conditions in B&B's for much longer than the law stipulates, with very little (or no) remedy, or recourse for them.



There's plenty of British nationals living in the SW that can't even afford to rent those houses. Why should the taxpayers foot the bill for asylum seekers who won't be allowed to earn a wage over British nationals to line the pockets of those already holding the riches of Croesus?

Look after our own first & foremost. They already get a sh1te deal as it is.

I agree that people can look at what is going on in the world and forget what is happening on their doorstep but once people are here then they are going through the same nonsense. The law says all sorts of things in terms of what the homeless have rights to,
no-one considered homeless and certainly no asylum seeker is given any priority in my experience and people being forced out of what was considered secure social housing has always been part of gentrifying the area.

 

[Mrk]

They'd been in Turkey for over a year;

Hence;

As far as I'm aware, they'd only become migrants if they had become Turkish citizens beforehand.