Moyes linked with Villa and Spurs

[Neiler]

I'm looking at what looks to be a man who's had a go in Randy Lerner. Time will tell whether he sinks Villa, or more likely sells them on when he gets a good opportunity. But the evidence we have so far is that the feller came into Villa and backed the footballing side of things > it didn't work out to the extent everyone there wanted > finances were in a mess from the point of view of borrowing from Lerner himself and something had to be done about it. There's nothing to suggest that he wont reorganise the business plan and have another tilt at making Villa work.

Compare that with Everton where we've had a board in place for 11 years and have given zero opportunity to their manager to crack into the top echelon of the game, and worse still are making him pay for their lack of dynamism and failed decisions by selling the players from underneath him.

why I make the distinction.

The man took over the club in 0 debt, ran up a debt of 130 mill in a few seasons, mostly to him and began to pay himself interest. Im sorry mate, in what universe is he going to fund another tilt - more loans, hes a rat.

Villa have indebted themselves deeply to get close to us and failed, yet we remain consistanlty able to command what we have achived positianly in the league, living within (someone would say no) means. Its now time to pay the piper for Villa. Like many have said on here and warned about in recent years, the model was/is unsustainable, to the point it is now dangerous. This is now proven to be the case:

When you talk about the need to sell players at Everton you fail to draw a comparrison with Villa:

Maloney
Cahill
Knight
Gardner
Milner
Barry
Shorey
Ireland
Carew
Sidwell
Davies

All needed to be got rid of at a loss in terms of the debt and wages, and still they are making huge losses. Young has more or less has said he is of, Downing wont sign another deal, their squad is supplemented with loans and free agents in Pires, Makoun and Bradley. Bent was a tactical signing to keep the fans at bay and is likely to have a high resale value.

Villa are torpedoed mate, i could go on, what ive said about Learner is only the tip of the iceberg to be honest, hes a rat and now has Villa in his clutches, 4.5mill over ten years in interest payements is what 45 mill assumeing he wont run up any more debt which doesnt look impossible. He can then call in the balance of part of his loans or as you say sell it at a profit or break even after creaming of top. Its Hicks and Gillet stuff, but just not as funny, like i say, i genuinely feel sorry for Villa fans.

Our board are not perfect, but i know who id rather have in charge of Everton.

 

[Matt Damon]

The man took over the club in 0 debt, ran up a debt of 130 mill in a few seasons, mostly to him and began to pay himself interrest. Im sorry mate, in what universe is he going to fund another tilt - more loans, hes a rat.

Villa have indebted themselves deeply to get close to us and failed, yet we remain consisteanlty able to command what we have achived positianly in the league, living within (someone would say no) means. Its now time to pay the piper for Villa. Like many have said on here and warned about in recent years, the model was/is unsustainable, to the point it is now dangerous. This is now proven to be the case:

When you talk about the need to sell players at Everton you fail to draw a comparrison with Villa:

Maloney
Cahill
Knight
Gardner
Milner
Barry
Shorey
Ireland
Carew
Sidwell
Davies

All needed to be got rid of at a loss in terms of the debt and wages, and still they are making huge losses. Young has more or less has said he is of, Downing wont sign another deal, their squad is supplemented with loans and free agents in Pires, Makoun and Bradley. Bent was a tactical signing to keep the fans at bay and is likely to have a high resale value.

Villa are torpedoed mate, i could go on, what ive said about Learner is only the tip of the iceberg to be honest, hes a rat and now has Villa in his clutches, 4.5mill over ten years in interest payements is what 45 mill assumeing he wont run up any more debt which doesnt look impossible. He can then call in the balance of part of his loans or as you say sell it at a profit or break even after creaming of top. Its Hicks and Gillet stuff, but just not as funny, like i say i genuinely feel sorry for Villa fans.

Our board are not perfect, but i know who id rather have in charge of Everton.

It certainly wouldn't be Lerner.

As Davek so often likes to shout from the roof tops we've got board members already on paper who are billionaires or at least have fortunes in the £ '00s of millions.

Lerner seemingly fits in that category, but who's simply allowing Villa to rack up a hefty debt at record rates.

£140 million since 2007 is going some!


Kenwright's not perfect, but at least he recognises the importance of keeping a tight leash on costs/liabilities.

When they say they budget for a £6million loss at least that doesn't turn into a £30 million one!


Yes he's not perfect by any means. I don't agree with the liquidation or refinancing of Everton's assets at all! And really needs to think less 1-dimensionally. That and his "management team" (non-playing staff).

But still £37 million loses are not something Kenwright's given us in a single season!



But then again, who are we to question Cardinal Davek ?


What do we know Neiler?

 

[fozzy]

It certainly wouldn't be Lerner.

As Davek so often likes to shout from the roof tops we've got board members already on paper who are billionaires or at least have fortunes in the £ '00s of millions.

Lerner seemingly fits in that category, but who's simply allowing Villa to rack up a hefty debt at record rates.

£140 million since 2007 is going some!


Kenwright's not perfect, but at least he recognises the importance of keeping a tight leash on costs/liabilities.

When they say they budget for a £6million loss at least that doesn't turn into a £30 million one!


Yes he's not perfect by any means. I don't agree with the liquidation or refinancing of Everton's assets at all! And really needs to think less 1-dimensionally. That and his "management team" (non-playing staff).

But still £37 million loses are not something Kenwright's given us in a single season!



But then again, who are we to question Cardinal Davek ?


What do we know Neiler?

just a question!

do villa have assets other than playing staff? to use as collateral?

and do everton?

and these 10 players that are being released are pants and mostly out off contract!

and neilers list of players (which mostly didnt want to stay or wasnt wanted to stay) went for how much profit combined?

yes there debt is a problem!! but i realy dont think this is a fire sale! getting rid of the rotten eggs! imo

and as we have seen our selves if a player wants out then theres no chance!

 

[Matt Damon]

just a question!

do villa have assets other than playing staff? to use as collateral?

and do everton?

and these 10 players that are being released are pants and mostly out off contract!

and neilers list of players (which mostly didnt want to stay or wasnt wanted to stay) went for how much profit combined?

yes there debt is a problem!! but i realy dont think this is a fire sale! getting rid of the rotten eggs! imo

and as we have seen our selves if a player wants out then theres no chance!

I'm only going to say this in response (its late, and this is the important point!):

Maloney
Cahill
Knight
Gardner
Milner
Barry
Shorey
Ireland
Carew
Sidwell
Davies

Disposed of, yet net debt is up to £140 million ?

Answer that.

 

[chicoazul]

 

[Chang Elephant]

**** me, yet another tangent diversion in the continuing defence of Bungler Bill......don't back your manager in the transfer market is the lesson that Lerner should have heeded?

Next lesson is for Blatter.....no need to give a flying one about criticism, just ignore it, ride it out, ban press conferences/AGM's, a large proportion of your audience are thick and will forget/defend you anyway.

 

[fozzy]

I'm only going to say this in response (its late, and this is the important point!):

Maloney
Cahill
Knight
Gardner
Milner
Barry
Shorey
Ireland
Carew
Sidwell
Davies

Disposed of, yet net debt is up to £140 million ?

Answer that.

so i'm thinking your doing your blatter move again then and not ansrewing the questions?

i not denying the debt they have!

was asking do they have collateral to off set it? and do everton have the same or have we cashed in all ours to keep our debt down and have fook all now but a mounting debt?

and did those players go for a profit? and how much? and i know you like to include wages so a total would be nice!

 

[fozzy]

I'm only going to say this in response (its late, and this is the important point!):

Maloney
Cahill
Knight
Gardner
Milner
Barry
Shorey
Ireland
Carew
Sidwell
Davies

Disposed of, yet net debt is up to £140 million ?

Answer that.

so i'm thinking your doing your blatter move again then and not ansrewing my question?

i not denying the debt they have!

was asking do they have collateral to off set it? and do everton have the same or have we cashed in all ours to keep our debt down and have fook all now but a mounting debt?

and did those players go for a profit? and how much? and i know you like to include wages so a total would be nice!

 

[Matt Damon]

so i'm thinking your doing your blatter move again then and not ansrewing my question?

i not denying the debt they have!

was asking do they have collateral to off set it? and do everton have the same or have we cashed in all ours to keep our debt down and have fook all now but a mounting debt?

and did those players go for a profit? and how much? and i know you like to include wages so a total would be nice!

Nah mate. Its late. My good friend Neiler will answer each and every point.

The key point is NET DEBT. NET DEBT.

Villa's is enormous (£140million) and growing at six times the rate as Evertons EVERY YEAR.

 

[fozzy]

Nah mate. Its late. My good friend Neiler will answer each and every point.

The key point is NET DEBT. NET DEBT.

Villa's is enormous (£140million) and growing at six times the rate as Evertons EVERY YEAR.

and how much would our net debt be if we didnt sell all the silver? and now its gone we is fooked!

 

[Matt Damon]

and how much would our net debt be if we didnt sell all the silver? and now its gone we is fooked!

I'm going to say this again as you either ignored it or didn't understand it.


Maloney
Cahill
Knight
Gardner
Milner
Barry
Shorey
Ireland
Carew
Sidwell
Davies

Disposed of, yet net debt is up to £140 million ?

They sold all of those players yet, they still went THREE (3) times higher into debt than Everton did!

Does that answer your question.

 

[fozzy]

I'm going to say this again as you either ignored it or didn't understand it.


Maloney
Cahill
Knight
Gardner
Milner
Barry
Shorey
Ireland
Carew
Sidwell
Davies

Disposed of, yet net debt is up to £140 million ?

They sold all of those players yet, they still went THREE (3) times higher into debt than Everton did!

Does that answer your question.

villa net debt £110m by last accounts but sod it we will add £30m!!! pay £5m in interest a year!!

everton £45m in debt but by your adding £30m its £75m and we pay £4m a year interest!!

so who is looking worse off here?

 

[Matt Damon]

villa net debt £110m by last accounts but sod it we will add £30m!!! pay £5m in interest a year!!

everton £45m in debt but by your adding up its £75m and we pay £4m a year interest!!

so who is looking worse off here?

They were LAST SEASONS ACCOUNTS. THEY LOST £37 million that year. They lost £45 million the year before that.

They finished lower in the league (placings and sponsorship), they had to pay of O'Neil via tribunal. They've just disposed a shed load of players. And there's an increase in debt/interest etc etc etc


Its safe to say that they've just made another whopping loss.

So a £30million loss MINIMUM is to be expected. It's actually probably higher than £140million debts.


But wanted to go easy on them.

 

[fozzy]

They were LAST SEASONS ACCOUNTS. THEY LOST £37 million that year. They lost £45 million the year before that.

They finished lower in the league (placings and sponsorship), they had to pay of O'Neil via tribunal. They've just disposed a shed load of players. And there's an increase in debt/interest etc etc etc


Its safe to say that they've just made another whopping loss.

So a £30million loss MINIMUM is to be expected. It's actually probably higher than £140million debts.


But wanted to go easy on them.

ok! all i will say is lets wait and see! i reckon will villa spend piles more than us in the summer and i reckon if they get into europe they wil be aloud in!

 

[kenada_blue]

The man took over the club in 0 debt, ran up a debt of 130 mill in a few seasons, mostly to him and began to pay himself interest. Im sorry mate, in what universe is he going to fund another tilt - more loans, hes a rat.

Villa have indebted themselves deeply to get close to us and failed, yet we remain consistanlty able to command what we have achived positianly in the league, living within (someone would say no) means. Its now time to pay the piper for Villa. Like many have said on here and warned about in recent years, the model was/is unsustainable, to the point it is now dangerous. This is now proven to be the case:

When you talk about the need to sell players at Everton you fail to draw a comparrison with Villa:

Maloney
Cahill
Knight
Gardner
Milner
Barry
Shorey
Ireland
Carew
Sidwell
Davies

All needed to be got rid of at a loss in terms of the debt and wages, and still they are making huge losses. Young has more or less has said he is of, Downing wont sign another deal, their squad is supplemented with loans and free agents in Pires, Makoun and Bradley. Bent was a tactical signing to keep the fans at bay and is likely to have a high resale value.

Villa are torpedoed mate, i could go on, what ive said about Learner is only the tip of the iceberg to be honest, hes a rat and now has Villa in his clutches, 4.5mill over ten years in interest payements is what 45 mill assumeing he wont run up any more debt which doesnt look impossible. He can then call in the balance of part of his loans or as you say sell it at a profit or break even after creaming of top. Its Hicks and Gillet stuff, but just not as funny, like i say, i genuinely feel sorry for Villa fans.

Our board are not perfect, but i know who id rather have in charge of Everton.

I've mentioned before that lerner and oneil took a team finishing around 17th up to top 6 in a few years, rehauled and rebuilt a squad.

Problem being was, just like citeh, they gambled on getting champos league but they never got it.

Now, he's trying to sort the club out. It's also why the Moyes rumours are starting. Get him in, make do with what he's given until things are at a servicable level before reinvesting. Which maybe the point to it. Unlike our board, if Moyes steadied the ship at villa, give that a season or 2 lerner would reward him with a transfer fund. We don't.

I've always said, financials aside, the minute Moyes is allowed to listen to what lerner has to say if it ever happened it'd mean Moyes is fed up with our board. All lerner would do is promise him a few things he wants and he'd be gone.

Personally I'm not comfortable in totally dismissing Moyes leaving as much as some people. He's so restrained here its unreal. He gets reassuring promises from villa or even sunderland for eg, hell ne gone