My fear going forward - what about the youth?

[kithnou]

As a club we have always given youth the opportunity and we have seen Davies in glimpses . Every time he has played he has excelled. Including against Koemans Southampton last season.

Yet he can't get in ahead of Gibson, McCarthy etc?

That's the laughable predicament. The other side of the coin is, would putting talented youth into a first team squad so mentally fragile and broken as footballers ruin them?

 

[blulouie]

As a club we have always given youth the opportunity and we have seen Davies in glimpses . Every time he has played he has excelled. Including against Koemans Southampton last season.

Yet he can't get in ahead of Gibson, McCarthy etc?

With due respect I am ahead of Gibson. Think McCarthy rightly or wrongly is being put in the shop window.
Which leaves Barry & Gana . Cant see him getting in font of them this season.
Ideal world Tom would be coming on for Barry when we are cruising in games & there's not many of them at the moment .

 

[blueloon]

Is Cleverly or Lennon really a better option than Dowell ?

Yes, both are , that's a poor argument to make. Dowell hasn't performed consistently at U23s this season and looks nothing like the scorer of wonder goals he was last season. At 19 the worst thing we could do is stick him in the first team squad at this current time . By all accounts he's played well for the England u20s recently so he hasn't lost all his form . But if Cleverly or Lennon are to be replaced by youngsters then Davies and Walsh are the better options at the moment.
As was said elsewhere, Koeman gave a good interview on Davies recently which was well reasoned re his use of youngsters and the opportunities they will get. I'd love to see more youngsters in our first team , and at times I'd rather see our U23s than our first team , they're often more entertaining but they need to be ready .

 

[bluestevon]

To be fair you have failed to recognise a point I made; our academy provides a gateway into the first team .

Ball, Jeffers, Rooney, Osman, Hibbert , Rodwell , Barkley all got the opportunity and all made superb careers for themselves or for the club significant funds.

Right now the opportunities and route into the first eleven appears remote for the reasons I listed above .

In his first 12 (14 including cup games) games in charge Koeman has played Holgate for his first ever game in the league (5 games in total - 3 in the league) and also used Davies in 3 games as well

How does that compare to Moyes and Martinez and there first 12 games in charge and there use of none established academy players in there initial period in charge?

 

[jinkyali]

In his first 12 (14 including cup games) games in charge Koeman has played Holgate for his first ever game in the league (5 games in total - 3 in the league) and also used Davies in 3 games as well

How does that compare to Moyes and Martinez and there first 12 games in charge and there use of none established academy players in there initial period in charge?

I think with respect that this is a difficult comparison to make considering as circumstances are different and the whole context of the point is being ignored.

High level the chances of younger players breaking through appear on the outside to be at an all time low.

The supposed Moshiri millions. The new direction from the head of academy.

To answer the question though.

I think Moyes gave Osman and Chadwick chances; Rooney too.

Martinez played Stones and Ross.

 

[Papa Shango]

If our Under 23s are top of the league then surely its better to keep them together for a bit and breed a winning mentality instead of just throwing them into the first team for all sorts of Park End fatties to boo their every touch if they havnt scored a hat trick by half time?

There is a massive step up anyway. I have said it before but I have a hard time believing that any manager ignores good young players for the hell of it. If they are good enough and ready they will play.

 

[Papa Shango]

As a club we have always given youth the opportunity and we have seen Davies in glimpses . Every time he has played he has excelled. Including against Koemans Southampton last season.

Yet he can't get in ahead of Gibson, McCarthy etc?

Gibson?

He is never in the squad! How can he be ahead of anybody?

Talented player when fit (I know, I know..) too by the way.

 

[AndyZ]

Btw who exactly are all these brilliant young players the club has produced over the past twenty years? Only one has made it at the very top level - rooney, and one has a chance in Ross. The rest of them where busted flushes by the age of 23-24, rodwell, cadamateri, Jeffers, ball, Vaughan, anichebe, or just bog standard average players like osman and hibbert.

The myth of our academy being so good etc has lived off producing Rooney 15 years ago ever since.

Anichebe scored two this weekend.. *hides

 

[bluestevon]

I think with respect that this is a difficult comparison to make considering as circumstances are different and the whole context of the point is being ignored.

High level the chances of younger players breaking through appear on the outside to be at an all time low.

The supposed Moshiri millions. The new direction from the head of academy.

To answer the question though.

I think Moyes gave Osman and Chadwick chances; Rooney too.

Martinez played Stones and Ross.

In his first 12 games Martinez used stones as a 1 minute sub twice, Barkley had already played 18 games for Everton including 5 of Moyes last 9 games in charge

Osman was loaned out by Moyes in his first season and didnt return till January - played 2 games that season for us

Rooney did play for Moyes early on, but christ your talking about the most talented english player in the past 15 years - any manager would have played him

Chadwick was given his debut and i think majority of his games by Smith wasnt he?

As i said - Koeman so far is showing no less willigness to play young players than either the two previous managers did

 

[bluestevon]

Anichebe scored two this weekend.. *hides

i know mate, was a moment i actually thought he could make it big as well - around the time of the Eufa run when he looked on fire

 

[Timak]

In his first 12 games Martinez used stones as a 1 minute sub twice, Barkley had already played 18 games for Everton including 5 of Moyes last 9 games in charge

Osman was loaned out by Moyes in his first season and didnt return till January - played 2 games that season for us

Rooney did play for Moyes early on, but christ your talking about the most talented english player in the past 15 years - any manager would have played him

Chadwick was given his debut and i think majority of his games by Smith wasnt he?

As i said - Koeman so far is showing no less willigness to play young players than either the two previous managers did

Debut by Smith but all goals/games under Moyes.

 

[Coffee and TV]

My worry is that in the short term Koeman and Walsh will focus on squad overhaul consisting mainly of acquisitions of players who are experienced and ready for the here and now.

Is Cleverly or Lennon really a better option than Dowell ?

Dowell is struggling a bit at the moment, he's inconsistent for the U23s and looks a little too lightweight yet. It would be mental to put him in the team ahead of someone like Lennon in front of a crowd expecting results.

 

[blueloon]

High level the chances of younger players breaking through appear on the outside to be at an all time low.

The supposed Moshiri millions. The new direction from the head of academy.
.

Your scattergun approach that everything is wrong genuinely baffles me, so help me by explaining why you think " the new direction" from the head of academy is hampering players breaking through.

 

[Angle c]

All this talk of moyes playing youth, I can remember a lot of fans whinging about him not playing kids, I think most of it was shortly after barkley last went out on loan

 

[ExpatinBangkok]

I'd much rather buy in proven world class talent (if we could) than risk using youth team players. Only exception is if there is a potential world class player like Rooney and I'm confident if we had one they would be getting decent first team play time.