New Everton Stadium

[MickA]

Were there Labour Momentum meetings to scupper the development of Anfield and the demolition of houses in the Anfield area?

Bit difficult seen as Momentum were not even formed when planning permission was granted.

Regardless, this is nothing to do with LFC or any weird bias. The deal should be scrutinised and if all is fine there's nothing to worry about is there?

 

[havrey0123]

Another good post. But you only have to look at DaveK's response to see how the pessimists put their own spin on things even when people from both sides of the argument don't actually know what is happening currently. He claims:

"Having no news is the issue. No news = nothing is being resolved "

@davek - what about:

No news = there are still things to sort out that are slowing things down, however the prospect of Everton still building a Stadium at BMD is still fully expected to happen?

The whole thing may collapse, but until we get some evidence of it, that is just a prediction and it's frustrating constantly seeing people on this thread writing the whole thing off when nothing new has come out.

Complications happen with pretty much every stadium project. It happened for Wembley, the new Spurs Stadium, and for the proposed Chelsea one. 2 of those got built in the end despite many obstacles and setbacks.

Look how hard spurs stadium was to build given the space they had to work with. On top of that it has 2 pitches on top of each other and they still got it done.

I think even 500m estimate is too low.

 

[davek]

Another good post. But you only have to look at DaveK's response to see how the pessimists put their own spin on things even when people from both sides of the argument don't actually know what is happening currently. He claims:

"Having no news is the issue. No news = nothing is being resolved "

@davek - what about:

No news = there are still things to sort out that are slowing things down, however the prospect of Everton still building a Stadium at BMD is still fully expected to happen?

The whole thing may collapse, but until we get some evidence of it, that is just a prediction and it's frustrating constantly seeing people on this thread writing the whole thing off when nothing new has come out.

Complications happen with pretty much every stadium project. It happened for Wembley, the new Spurs Stadium, and for the proposed Chelsea one. 2 of those got built in the end despite many obstacles and setbacks.

Take a look at the history of Everton stadium schemes (from Peter Johnson's Kirkby Golf course location in the late 90s through to this one): that's why I never buy into the 'these things take time' spin.

There's been plenty of time to get moving on PP. It hasn't been submitted because the financisl model for this scheme has changed THREE times in 18 months and they dont have the foggiest how to supply the cash.

It's a fiasco mate. It might eventually be done, but the odds are lengthening by the week.

 

[Brisan123]

Without wishing to mix metaphors Eggy, that analysis is over egging the cake.

If, and its a massive if imo, this current ownership dont drag this over the line, the reason he pitched up is still there. Well, here.

Its frustrating, its annoying, its actually quite frightening at times, but look up from the screen, look up from EFC even, and look at the actual real investment, (time and money) that is invested in this project. Then ask yourself why. Is it to buy that full back from Celtic? Is it to waste ££££ on joke managers?

No.

Its a big picture. I may well be wrong. But it sustains my belief.

I went for a walk around Dublin Docklands last sunday.
Quite a bit different to the crime ridden ,street walker filled derelict dump of my childhood.
ALL I could see was shopping centres, theatres .restaurants pubs. office blocks. apartments ,convention centre, ,cranes and facebook ,Google,twitter signs
Reminded me of the docklands in San Diego ,NYC,Amsterdam and canary Wharf

 

[Brisan123]

Am I allowed call you a Kopite? I said the same thing and get called a Kopite the whole time for it.....

Mosh is a crook. He's no use to our club. Things will likely get worse before they get better.

Only difference is you ARE a kopite

 

[eddy]

I wish they would just get on with the Goodison refurb, it has to happen so lets get on with it. Forget a new stadium was nothing but a pipedream from a charlatan Moshiri.

 

[Goat]

I wish they would just get on with the Goodison refurb, it has to happen so lets get on with it. Forget a new stadium was nothing but a pipedream from a charlatan Moshiri.

The Goodison refurb is underway frandel, our shiny new wheelchair lift should be done by now.

A new stadium will happen, if not at BM, Stonecross will be much easier

But as yet ive seen nothing to suggest that BM wont happen.

 

[malfosse]

Always find it staggering when people have a go for doubting this.

Doubting a club who have failed at 3 moves already?

The sensible and logical outlook would that this regime will fail to take Everton forward again.

The sensible and logical outlook would be, to just wait for whatever the outcome is.

 

[RobSpurs]

Take a look at the history of Everton stadium schemes (from Peter Johnson's Kirkby Golf course location in the late 90s through to this one): that's why I never buy into the 'these things take time' spin.

A quick history of how we got to where we are now...

2001: Club starts buying up land around WHL, compensating businesses with stadium expansion in mind.
2002: SCHEME 1 - Club commissions KSS to draw up plans for stadium expansion. Club later rejects plans and they are never made public until they're leaked a few years later.

Nothing happens for a while...

2008: SCHEME 2 - Club reveals plans for new stadium
2009: Club reveals new stadium plans with altered single-tier stand

Nothing happens for a while....

2010: SCHEME 3 - Club tries to buy Olympic Stadium site, says stadium scheme in Tottenham is no longer financially viable. Loses bid to West Ham.

Then...

2012-15: ITK suggests new stadium scheme is back on but nothing official. Rumours about new architect, NFL involvement. Meanwhile legal wrangling about final pieces of land go on, referred to Secretary of State, goes to High Court.
2015: SCHEME 4 - New stadium scheme finally revealed.
2015-16: Planning permission finally gained for full scheme and building starts.
2018: Stadium opens.

These things take time! That's not spin, it's just fact. Doesn't mean BMD will happen, but I don't see anything unusual in the time things are taking so far.

the financisl model for this scheme has changed THREE times in 18 months and they dont have the foggiest how to supply the cash.

This is where I'm more in agreement with you. From guarantor, to offering a loan for some of the stadium to possibly financing the whole thing with a much bigger loan? And everything seemingly reliant on a Mayor who might or might not be well supported?

The time things are taking isn't unusual. This aspect of it seems bizarre to me though. I guess if it means the council earns a few million and the scheme is more secure as a result it's win-win, but it seems far from settled. Hope there's some decisions made on this soon because, unlike our scheme, it looks like securing the land and pp will be dependent on it.

 

[davek]

A quick history of how we got to where we are now...

2001: Club starts buying up land around WHL, compensating businesses with stadium expansion in mind.
2002: SCHEME 1 - Club commissions KSS to draw up plans for stadium expansion. Club later rejects plans and they are never made public until they're leaked a few years later.

Nothing happens for a while...

2008: SCHEME 2 - Club reveals plans for new stadium
2009: Club reveals new stadium plans with altered single-tier stand

Nothing happens for a while....

2010: SCHEME 3 - Club tries to buy Olympic Stadium site, says stadium scheme in Tottenham is no longer financially viable. Loses bid to West Ham.

Then...

2012-15: ITK suggests new stadium scheme is back on but nothing official. Rumours about new architect, NFL involvement. Meanwhile legal wrangling about final pieces of land go on, referred to Secretary of State, goes to High Court.
2015: SCHEME 4 - New stadium scheme finally revealed.
2015-16: Planning permission finally gained for full scheme and building starts.
2018: Stadium opens.

These things take time! That's not spin, it's just fact. Doesn't mean BMD will happen, but I don't see anything unusual in the time things are taking so far.



This is where I'm more in agreement with you. From guarantor, to offering a loan for some of the stadium to possibly financing the whole thing with a much bigger loan? And everything seemingly reliant on a Mayor who might or might not be well supported?

The time things are taking isn't unusual. This aspect of it seems bizarre to me though. I guess if it means the council earns a few million and the scheme is more secure as a result it's win-win, but it seems far from settled. Hope there's some decisions made on this soon because, unlike our scheme, it looks like securing the land and pp will be dependent on it.

From the outside looking in it seems like the eventual deadlock being broken was on the basis of the commercial necessity for Spurs to capitalise on its gate-crashing into the PL elite and qualifying for the CL on a couple of occasions. I'm sure there's much more to it than that, but lenders must have been persuaded they were onto a good return. We're not in that position and we dont have that same sense of urgency (or logic) to push through a scheme like this.

This will all end with a reining in of ambition to something more manageable - either rebuilding Goodison Park peicemeal or a stadium elsewhere which involves public and private partners (as with Destination Kirkby) and we finally get a realistic scheme over the line.

 

[LEONARD]

I agree with the general consensus on here.

Let's all be disappointed now, as it will save time later.

 

[4737carlin]

Years away this, lets be honest while we fumed that it didnt come off under Bill, the fact nothing solid seems to be happening now, under a guy who does have money and connections, its shows how hard this is to do. Bill had good intentions, well maybe not Kirby, but was way out of his depth and with all the will in the world was never going to pull it off, question is can Farhad?

 

[RobSpurs]

From the outside looking in it seems like the eventual deadlock being broken was on the basis of the commercial necessity for Spurs to capitalise on its gate-crashing into the PL elite and qualifying for the CL on a couple of occasions. I'm sure there's much more to it than that, but lenders must have been persuaded they were onto a good return. We're not in that position and we dont have that same sense of urgency (or logic) to push through a scheme like this.

The stadium scheme suddenly being back on coincided with this - https://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/nov/12/premier-league-tv-rights-5-bn

My feeling is this absolutely wasn't a coincidence and was the thing that tipped the balance.

Of course, on pitch performance - especially when Bale was at his best with us - was improving but we also had seasons with AVB's suicidal defence and only a year before the stadium plan was revealed Tim Nice But Dim in charge and key squad members wanting out. Nobody could've known Poch would be the gamble that paid off and there was a lot of cynicism when he came in. But still the stadium plans were pressing ahead in the background.

The money in the game is crazy and will keep getting bigger, especially overseas rights. I don't see the logic in your move being much different to ours. But clarity on the council's involvement really needs to happen. That aspect of it just looks bizarre.

 

[eddy]

The Goodison refurb is underway frandel, our shiny new wheelchair lift should be done by now.

A new stadium will happen, if not at BM, Stonecross will be much easier

But as yet ive seen nothing to suggest that BM wont happen.

£ .... lack of never happen

 

[davek]

The stadium scheme suddenly being back on coincided with this - https://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/nov/12/premier-league-tv-rights-5-bn

My feeling is this absolutely wasn't a coincidence and was the thing that tipped the balance.

Of course, on pitch performance - especially when Bale was at his best with us - was improving but we also had seasons with AVB's suicidal defence and only a year before the stadium plan was revealed Tim Nice But Dim in charge and key squad members wanting out. Nobody could've known Poch would be the gamble that paid off and there was a lot of cynicism when he came in. But still the stadium plans were pressing ahead in the background.

The money in the game is crazy and will keep getting bigger, especially overseas rights. I don't see the logic in your move being much different to ours. But clarity on the council's involvement really needs to happen. That aspect of it just looks bizarre.

The tv rights deal applies to all clubs in the PL. If that was the key development it doesn't answer why Everton have apparently been drawing blanks on investment.

It has to be something more specific to Spurs. Everton are viewed by all sectors on Merseyside as a bad risk over stadium schemes. They lack credibility. It's little wonder that the local authority is having problems persuading internal critics concerning the numbers involved. Add that to the lack of stability on the pitch then we are not in the position Spurs were before they finally got their build off the ground.