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New Everton Stadium

Tommy. said:
How would you feel about Rupert's Tower getting knocked down to build a petrol station?
Yes, it's "just a wall", however the principle behind heritage sites is absolutely not something to get rankled by, however much of an annoyance you perceive it to be.
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Well ones a wall I had no idea was historic until we started moving to BMD, and the other is an iconic part of our history / badge.

Although, there will be a way to preserve the wall anyway, apart from creating a new entrance like they'd had no problem doing for princes dock.

Let's go back to the Victorian days I say, steam roll throug anything historic. They smashed through the Roman Walls in Chester to build a train station.
 
GwladysPhil said:
Well ones a wall I had no idea was historic until we started moving to BMD, and the other is an iconic part of our history / badge.

Although, there will be a way to preserve the wall anyway, apart from creating a new entrance like they'd had no problem doing for princes dock.

Let's go back to the Victorian days I say, steam roll throug anything historic. They smashed through the Roman Walls in Chester to build a train station.
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Doesn't matter if you didn't know it was mate, it is and unfortunately that's it. I do place value in the history of our city though and balls to the Victorians for doing that. Thing is, it was known about the status of that wall whilst us Blues were screaming for that site, it's not a massive obstacle, there will be a way around it and dare I say in generations to come, that wall will become synonymous with our new stadium. It really isn't a big deal.
 
Tommy. said:
Doesn't matter if you didn't know it was mate, it is and unfortunately that's it. I do place value in the history of our city though and balls to the Victorians for doing that. Thing is, it was known about the status of that wall whilst us Blues were screaming for that site, it's not a massive obstacle, there will be a way around it and dare I say in generations to come, that wall will become synonymous with our new stadium. It really isn't a big deal.
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No one would ever go out there way to look at that wall.

I hope we smash it down.
 

Aston Villa have sold Villa park to their owners for nearly £60 million to avoid FFP.

Im no expert but providing planning permission is granted for BMD and the money is put up to start work could the club do something similiar with GP and Mosh?
 
Tommy. said:
How would you feel about Rupert's Tower getting knocked down to build a petrol station?
Yes, it's "just a wall", however the principle behind heritage sites is absolutely not something to get rankled by, however much of an annoyance you perceive it to be.
Click to expand...

Outside of the literal, rules are rules, barebones facts of them both being grade 2 listed buildings, that's not really the same is it.

First of all, Ruperts Tower has a huge cultural significance because of its association with Everton, regardless of its age or original/subsequent purposes. Second, it is a 200+ year old building in a public park, so the next significant reason is, it is part of a public space, to be used and enjoyed by the public, while the docklands are private property.

So in your example, you are saying that removing a green space with a grade 2 listed building, to create a site for a building/business with zero potential for improving the infrastructure of the city, is the same as potentially altering, not destroying, part of a structure on a disused, privately owned brownfield site, with the potential to enhance a rundown area, enhance the already world renowned Liverpool waterfront, bring in additional tourism and growth, and potentially create a future heritage site in the process?

Whats more, it is to be developed and incorporated by a local business with huge cultural significance, an institution that itself is only 30 years junior to the wall itself, as opposed to some multinational oil company.

I know you were just trying to prove a point, but they really are not the same thing.

And my bug bear isn't that the wall is listed, or that 1 is more important than the other. It is with the fact that the wall itself was built to provide a perfunctory purpose in the 1st place, and it's age and size are seemingly the only things that give it the status it has. Meanwhile, other areas of the miles of docklands and other areas and buildings in the city are built up, regenerated, moved, knocked down, etc at will with seemingly little or no impact.

If we were talking about knocking it down for a new patrol station, or a mcdonalds, I'd be right along with you. But we're not.

The only way the wall could have existed in the 1st place is by allowing the land it was built on to be developed. And it seems silly to me that that then stands in the way of future developments that can have an impact on the future of the city.
 
ForeverBlue92 said:
Aston Villa have sold Villa park to their owners for nearly £60 million to avoid FFP.

Im no expert but providing planning permission is granted for BMD and the money is put up to start work could the club do something similiar with GP and Mosh?
Click to expand...

Derby did the same. FFP as well. Allegedly etc. Barry Hearn, when he sold Orient (?) kept the ground in his pension fund, which meant they stayed viable even when they actually wernt really.

So it seems to be a last ditch attempt to keep important folk happy, rather than a "Good" idea. If that makes sense.

With us, assuming it goes to plan, I would guess that Everton owning the ground, debt notwithstanding, would be reflected in the valuation of us, ergo, Moshiri.
 
roydo said:
Derby did the same. FFP as well. Allegedly etc. Barry Hearn, when he sold Orient (?) kept the ground in his pension fund, which meant they stayed viable even when they actually wernt really.

So it seems to be a last ditch attempt to keep important folk happy, rather than a "Good" idea. If that makes sense.

With us, assuming it goes to plan, I would guess that Everton owning the ground, debt notwithstanding, would be reflected in the valuation of us, ergo, Moshiri.
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Do you reckon we'll sell GP/the ground once we move or is it going to be some extension building of EITC thats still owned by the club mate?

I've heard about the plans once we move but wasn't sure if those involved GP being sold.
 

Kever10 said:
Outside of the literal, rules are rules, barebones facts of them both being grade 2 listed buildings, that's not really the same is it.

First of all, Ruperts Tower has a huge cultural significance because of its association with Everton, regardless of its age or original/subsequent purposes. Second, it is a 200+ year old building in a public park, so the next significant reason is, it is part of a public space, to be used and enjoyed by the public, while the docklands are private property.

So in your example, you are saying that removing a green space with a grade 2 listed building, to create a site for a building/business with zero potential for improving the infrastructure of the city, is the same as potentially altering, not destroying, part of a structure on a disused, privately owned brownfield site, with the potential to enhance a rundown area, enhance the already world renowned Liverpool waterfront, bring in additional tourism and growth, and potentially create a future heritage site in the process?

Whats more, it is to be developed and incorporated by a local business with huge cultural significance, an institution that itself is only 30 years junior to the wall itself, as opposed to some multinational oil company.

I know you were just trying to prove a point, but they really are not the same thing.

And my bug bear isn't that the wall is listed, or that 1 is more important than the other. It is with the fact that the wall itself was built to provide a perfunctory purpose in the 1st place, and it's age and size are seemingly the only things that give it the status it has. Meanwhile, other areas of the miles of docklands and other areas and buildings in the city are built up, regenerated, moved, knocked down, etc at will with seemingly little or no impact.

If we were talking about knocking it down for a new patrol station, or a mcdonalds, I'd be right along with you. But we're not.

The only way the wall could have existed in the 1st place is by allowing the land it was built on to be developed. And it seems silly to me that that then stands in the way of future developments that can have an impact on the future of the city.
Click to expand...

Mate, it was an admittedly lazy comparison to highlight what these mundane to some structures can mean to others with no loyalty or bias to a potential new build. I'm no expert on the matter, my field of expertise probably couldn't be further from this however I'll always bow to those more 'in the know'. Fact is though, it's listed, we're not changing that, it won't stop the build, I'm drinking and off out shortly in a Middle Eastern city with practically zero chance of getting my nuts wet so we can continue this tomorrow. I don't disagree with much, if any at all that you've said, however someone had to play Devil's advocate and nothing I posted wasn't based in fact. So peace, much love, smell you later.
 
ForeverBlue92 said:
Do you reckon we'll sell GP/the ground once we move or is it going to be some extension building of EITC thats still owned by the club mate?

I've heard about the plans once we move but wasn't sure if those involved GP being sold.
Click to expand...

Not sure if we will actually sell it as such. The plans we have all seen for the area/ground post BMD will be the Goodison Park legacy, managed via EITC, If that includes some low cost housing, then maybe some plots may be sold to a housing association perhaps, but frankly, the real estate value of the place is pretty a Sanchez for a month.
 
roydo said:
Not sure if we will actually sell it as such. The plans we have all seen for the area/ground post BMD will be the Goodison Park legacy, managed via EITC, If that includes some low cost housing, then maybe some plots may be sold to a housing association perhaps, but frankly, the real estate value of the place is pretty a Sanchez for a month.
Click to expand...

Not only is the move benefiting the brownfield site, the goodison legacy sounds fantastic for Walton and surrounding areas.

Absolutely criminal this is being opposed.
 
Goodison is to be sold to build flats and we will also be building a community legacy site also.

I could see money coming from this just like Bellefield which was around £10m.

So USM buy the site for £500m and it's happy days
 

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