New Everton Stadium

[MikeB1980]

Lots of people visiting the city each year that may want to take in a premier league game at a state of the art, waterside stadium in a world heritage site area.

Liverpool is in the UK's top five tourist destinations with a boom in visitors

Liverpool looks set to take over Birmingham as the fourth most-visited city in the UK

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

I went to madrid a few years back on my Todd, and while I was there I did the stadium tour of the bernabeau and as both Rayo Vallecano and Atletico were good laying at home while I was there I chose which game to go to and plumped for vallecano in the end.

this was before the new stadium was built though, and if it had beenI’d definitely have gone there instead.

the location and shininess will bring in tourists of some description, no doubt.

that will fade away as the newness does unless we win trophies or play great football though.

 

[The binman chronicles]

This is also an argument against borrowing vast sums to build additional capacity which is either sold at prices below break-even, depresses the value you can get from the other seats or even worse, sits empty for the majority of the games each season.

Life is a gamble, but the yearly cost of the stadium will be made up by the commercial opportunities the stadium brings, naming rights etc. regardless of the TV income. Any tickets sold thereafter is a bonus. Any empty upper tier seats do not affect the seats lower down, people either want to close to the action and will pay more for that or be happy getting in for the cheapest price possible.

This category structure works in every stadium. For example why would supporters pay more to sit in the PE when there are cheaper seats available elsewhere?

By only increasing by 12k we are saying we are happy with our lot and ambition goes out the window. The stadium is always 95% full so everything is fine. The club would be made to worker harder if there were more seats available. People being comfortable does not drive success. And before someone mentions Juventus it is totally different argument in Italy and with a club at the very top that all players are happy to join.

The London clubs can already charge double what we can so even if we had a similar sized stadium we'd still be at a disadvantage. That 10k extra capacity will produce a figure closer to 20/25k in income terms. It wouldn't be so much of an issue if there was the ability to extend without it costing a fortune but the general outline of this stadium will be the same for the next 100 years and that has to play a part in the decision making.

If the TV money does go income wise we will be chalk and cheese from these so called big clubs, despite spending half a billion to bridge that gap.

 

[Neiler]

I went to madrid a few years back on my Todd, and while I was there I did the stadium tour of the bernabeau and as both Rayo Vallecano and Atletico were good laying at home while I was there I chose which game to go to and plumped for vallecano in the end.

this was before the new stadium was built though, and if it had beenI’d definitely have gone there instead.

the location and shininess will bring in tourists of some description, no doubt.

that will fade away as the newness does unless we win trophies or play great football though.

The stadium needs to be multi purpose as it has so much going for it in terms of location and access, i visited SJP in Newcastle on a non match day a few years back and got speaking to the stadium manager, he talked of the economics of the stadium away from football economics as a stand alone business, he told me the stadium exists as a business without Newcastle UTD as a facility financially, but Newcastle Utd doesn't exist without the stadium as a club. Such is the force of the stadium as an income generator for the club.

Other examples are Croke Park in Dublin that i would be familiar with, an excellent multi purpose facility that really drives revenue, away from the sport.

If done right, BMD could be a huge shot in the arm of growing the club by offering initiatives and facilities away from football.

Imagine all the cruise ships docking every day and offering this just as one brief example of many innitives:

https://crokepark.ie/gaa-museum-tours/ericsson-skyline

Skyline Tour gallery and city views - Croke Park

The Skyline Tour is a top Dublin tourist attraction and offers exhilarating views across Dublin from the roof of Croke Park stadium. View our gallery.

crokepark.ie

Best views of Dublin, BMD would be the same in Liverpool, you could have lunch packages etc. It all adds up every day.

 

[GwladysBlue]

Why does that mean we have to? They're happy making a stadium that looks fugly, destroys the local area and forces people out of their homes to drive revenue... That's not what I want from my club.

Who said it means we have to? You're an argumentative little fella, aren't you?

'Fugly'

Also, if we did alter our plans to expand the stadium, we wouldn't be forcing people out of their homes given that we're building on dockland, far enough away from residential areas.

Due carry on trying to pick arguments with everyone, though, and missing points entirely.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Who said it means we have to? You're an argumentative little fella, aren't you?

'Fugly'

Also, if we did alter our plans to expand the stadium, we wouldn't be forcing people out of their homes given that we're building on dockland, far enough away from residential areas.

Due carry on trying to pick arguments with everyone, though, and missing points entirely.

I really don't try to pick arguments. My apologies if it came across that way.

I had thought that you were comparing Liverpool's plan for capacity to ours and I was attempting to highlight the differences between the two clubs approaches. So, in a way, I think we are violently agreeing.

You have a nice day and enjoy the game.

 

[Dr Baxter]

We had this debate about stadium capacities here in Melbourne a few years ago and one of the strongest arguments put was that with the development
of virtual reality remote viewing there would be less need to actually be at the venue.

I've been to at least two, and probably more 70,000 plus crowds at GP, but the population of Liverpool was about double what it is now. People are able to move around the country more easily now, but will they be prepared to bother in 5, 10 years time when technology will make 'VR' as good as being there?

I don't think LFC always fill their new stand now, at a time when their supporters are having a good spell, and their capacity is nowhere near 60k, is it?

Just as a point of order, although I recognise the population of the City of Liverpool is several hundred thousand less than some decades ago, the population of the local area (Merseyside, Greater Liverpool Region whatever) is not substantially any less than it has been in the past. Not everybody moved far away in the 50's and 60's. Most families moved just a few miles.

 

[RobSpurs]

Don't take for granted the TV money will always be there.

True, but I'd say even that isn't the main consideration.

TV money is vast but the fact is, clubs are looking for differentiators not just totals. Clubs in and around where you're competing will be getting about the same amount of TV money as you so it doesn't matter if the TV money is more than you'd get from matchday because it cancels out. Question is, how do you get ahead of other clubs around you? Tens of millions more each year from a new stadium every year in the long term is a pretty good way of doing that.

 

[Moomin]

True, but I'd say even that isn't the main consideration.

TV money is vast but the fact is, clubs are looking for differentiators not just totals. Clubs in and around where you're competing will be getting about the same amount of TV money as you so it doesn't matter if the TV money is more than you'd get from matchday because it cancels out. Question is, how do you get ahead of other clubs around you? Tens of millions more each year from a new stadium every year in the long term is a pretty good way of doing that.

That's why your deal with the NFL is superb.

 

[Jeff Jones]

Mate, the last time the capacity was about 52,000 we couldn't fill it to play Bayern Munich, the closest we came was 51,500 Vs the rs.
All though I hate to say a good word about The Board...for all the previously mentioned various reasons they probably have it right.
All the rest is just pie in the sky willy waving
You have to cut your suit according to your cloth

Re. your 'Agressive Pricing' - you're right about it being not cost effective if the plan is to spend extra money, which you will have to pay extra interest on, to build extra seats, which you will proceed to sell off for cbeap...if you can sell them at all.

Mate, I don't think we can use attendances from that period as an indicator for what is likely to happen in the future. In a season when Everton won the
league and the ECWC, and played in the Cup Final attendances generally were incredibly low.

The home crowds in the matches immediately before and after the Bayern match (49,476) were 29,750 v WBA and 32,085 v Norwich. Many attendances in
that season were less than 30,000, and attendances across the whole league were generally poor.

 

[degsy]

We had this debate about stadium capacities here in Melbourne a few years ago and one of the strongest arguments put was that with the development
of virtual reality remote viewing there would be less need to actually be at the venue.

I've been to at least two, and probably more 70,000 plus crowds at GP, but the population of Liverpool was about double what it is now. People are able to move around the country more easily now, but will they be prepared to bother in 5, 10 years time when technology will make 'VR' as good as being there?

I don't think LFC always fill their new stand now, at a time when their supporters are having a good spell, and their capacity is nowhere near 60k, is it?

Virtual reality.?
We've yet to accept real reality yet

Mate, I don't think we can use attendances from that period as an indicator for what is likely to happen in the future. In a season when Everton won the
league and the ECWC, and played in the Cup Final attendances generally were incredibly low.

The home crowds in the matches immediately before and after the Bayern match (49,476) were 29,750 v WBA and 32,085 v Norwich. Many attendances in
that season were less than 30,000, and attendances across the whole league were generally poor.

Past or present is all irrelevant, I've seen the future and its 52,000

 

[alvinh]

Any empty upper tier seats do not affect the seats lower down, people either want to close to the action and will pay more for that or be happy getting in for the cheapest price possible.

You may be right but is that really the case? Off the top of my head:

A stadium that regularly has empty seats could act as a disincentive to season ticket sales with some fans deciding to be more selective on which games they attend.

Empty seats detract from atmosphere, damaging the experience of those who have attended.

The availability of cheaper seats could see some existing fans trading down, so instead of bringing in new supporters the club winds up taking less from existing matchgoers.

Finally, financing the bigger stadium could have an impact on money available for the team. Arsenal had a relatively thin few years in the Emirates as they tightened their belt. Wenger got them through that by continuing to qualify for CL football.

I get your point and if you're right and the gamble pays off then great. Most business people though would need to see sufficient evidence for future revenue before funding a lift in capacity of over 50%. It's a big gamble with the club's future finances.

 

[OneTrueLegend]

The stadium needs to be multi purpose as it has so much going for it in terms of location and access, i visited SJP in Newcastle on a non match day a few years back and got speaking to the stadium manager, he talked of the economics of the stadium away from football economics as a stand alone business, he told me the stadium exists as a business without Newcastle UTD as a facility financially, but Newcastle Utd doesn't exist without the stadium as a club. Such is the force of the stadium as an income generator for the club.

Other examples are Croke Park in Dublin that i would be familiar with, an excellent multi purpose facility that really drives revenue, away from the sport.

If done right, BMD could be a huge shot in the arm of growing the club by offering initiatives and facilities away from football.

Imagine all the cruise ships docking every day and offering this just as one brief example of many innitives:

https://crokepark.ie/gaa-museum-tours/ericsson-skyline

Skyline Tour gallery and city views - Croke Park

The Skyline Tour is a top Dublin tourist attraction and offers exhilarating views across Dublin from the roof of Croke Park stadium. View our gallery.

crokepark.ie

Best views of Dublin, BMD would be the same in Liverpool, you could have lunch packages etc. It all adds up every day.

I agree with you, but we missed the boat with the King's Dock. I think if we had put in retractable pitch and roof for major arena events, the M&S Bank arena and more of the local businesses and residents would have complained because there would be disruption year round for events, not just on match days

 

[AndyC]

Life is a gamble, but the yearly cost of the stadium will be made up by the commercial opportunities the stadium brings, naming rights etc. regardless of the TV income. Any tickets sold thereafter is a bonus. Any empty upper tier seats do not affect the seats lower down, people either want to close to the action and will pay more for that or be happy getting in for the cheapest price possible.

This category structure works in every stadium. For example why would supporters pay more to sit in the PE when there are cheaper seats available elsewhere?

By only increasing by 12k we are saying we are happy with our lot and ambition goes out the window. The stadium is always 95% full so everything is fine. The club would be made to worker harder if there were more seats available. People being comfortable does not drive success. And before someone mentions Juventus it is totally different argument in Italy and with a club at the very top that all players are happy to join.

The London clubs can already charge double what we can so even if we had a similar sized stadium we'd still be at a disadvantage. That 10k extra capacity will produce a figure closer to 20/25k in income terms. It wouldn't be so much of an issue if there was the ability to extend without it costing a fortune but the general outline of this stadium will be the same for the next 100 years and that has to play a part in the decision making.

If the TV money does go income wise we will be chalk and cheese from these so called big clubs, despite spending half a billion to bridge that gap.

Income wise we are already miles and miles behind the big clubs, and the gap will continue to grow and weaken our chance to close the gap unless Moshiri gets a proper grip on the club and stops (people being comfortable and not driving constantly for better) accepting second-best or worse from all elements of the business.

Without the revenue streams to support the DoF/manager with team strengthening, we will find it increasingly difficult to compete at a level where we all feel we should be competing.

Other than the basic idea of a new stadium at BMD, we have no idea of what long-term plan Moshiri has for Everton, if indeed a plan even exists.

 

[Jeff Jones]

Virtual reality.?
We've yet to accept real reality yet

Past or present is all irrelevant, I've seen the future and its 52,000

And that's my point. 52,000 is fine with me. I'm just saying that because we struggled to get to that number in 1985, doesn't mean we can't do it now.

 

[degsy]

And that's my point. 52,000 is fine with me. I'm just saying that because we struggled to get to that number in 1985, doesn't mean we can't do it now.

Time will tell.
The rs attendance will be your max baseline, always was, always will be.
Lets call it 99% of 52,000 or 51,480
If we hit 51,000 more times than not...after the first couple of seasons. Then the case for bigger will be proven.
If I'm not even more gaga in 2030 than I am now - vault me.