New Everton Stadium

[Charlie Sweet]

The area is in a desperate state because it like the ground has suffered from lack of investment and left to rot , it not a forgone conclusion its has to end that way , plenty of run down area's around the country have come come back to life , Salford, east end London, Edinburgh docks ect it just needs a bit of a will to do that , something that hasnt been done by anybody by local/national government for decades.
Maybe are ground could be used as a driver to help with this.
The housing stock is getting bought up for buy to let and has been for ages , meaning the community is in constant transit , and sadly a decline in the community spirit to fight back.

I think the best solution for L4 would be for the Council to compulsory purchase about 400 acres of it, clear it completely and sell it to a developer for £1 and start again. No government initiative is going to solve the core problems of social decay and an associated dearth of aspiration.

I agree that a new stadium could and should.be the catalyst for such change but whether the stadium itself should.remain in L4 is a separate matter. A refurbished Goodison that sits within an area of decay can only take the club so far.

This isn't a political debate but it frustrates me that people and councils seem so scared of radical solutions. L4 has failed and rather than use sticking plasters of a new community centre here or so kind of outreach programme for a couple of years I think it would be far better to wipe the slate clean and start again.

A new stadium needs enabling development to be viable. The private sector are never going to jump into L4 as it is since the resultant homes and business premises have no great value. Hence the only local solution was a Tesco tin shed in Kirkby.

If the club choose to stay in L4 then great but the way forward has to be a slum clearance on a massive scale in order to provide the necessary return on equity for any third party investor.

Or the club finds a site somehow in the city centre where there is a more viable property market to support the wider development.

 

[MickA]

I've reported that post. There's no place for such personal attacks.

I actually found your "L4 is in a desperate state and nothing is going to change it. It's just a natural evolution. Sentiment doesn't come into it. There's no point crying over a decline that's irreversible" quite a disgusting statement too.

What happens in L4, as with all similar areas in the country, should be dealt with sensitivity and with a cohesive plan in place taking inputs from the community in question. Your blanket statement is symptomatic of much of what is wrong with this country at the minute.

 

[The Esk]

Lads the reported issue has been dealt with, let's keep to the topic of the stadium and L4 in as much as it is relevant to a stadium move or redevelopment.

Thanks.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

You're talking about somebodies community & I'd imagine their families community . That seemed obvious from his posts, well that's what I took from them , that and his obvious passion . You maybe should think about how your posts will impact on other people before you type them , if you don't or don't care then you surely can't be surprised if people respond with that same passion .

That doesn't excuse personal attacks and foul language no more than excusing a drunk from a criminal act on the grounds of how much alcohol they had consumed.

Surely the stadium debate is intrinsically linked to the current state of Goodison and its limitations? Is it not?

 

[The Esk]

That doesn't excuse personal attacks and foul language no more than excusing a drunk from a criminal act on the grounds of how much alcohol they had consumed.

Surely the stadium debate is intrinsically linked to the current state of Goodison and its limitations? Is it not?

Please read my post above

 

[Charlie Sweet]

I actually found your "L4 is in a desperate state and nothing is going to change it. It's just a natural evolution. Sentiment doesn't come into it. There's no point crying over a decline that's irreversible" quite a disgusting statement too.

What happens in L4, as with all similar areas in the country, should be dealt with sensitivity and with a cohesive plan in place taking inputs from the community in question. Your blanket statement is symptomatic of much of what is wrong with this country at the minute.

That's fine and I fully respect your opinion. My point is that the authorities have been too sensitive to date and not grasped the initiative for a more fundamental solution.

Over the last 30 years every government and council have poured huge funds into touchy feely regeneration programmes for deprived areas but in this instance I'd bet there hasn't been much positive movement in any of the core indicators of social deprivation.

I think a really ambitious redevelopment of Goodison on a site adjoining it's current footprint would be a great solution. We could.keep the best elements of the club's history. But to be financially.viable we would.need a very different hinterland for enabling development. Otherwise it's just not going to work in my opinion.

 

[Fresh Prince of Belle Val]

I'm sorry but knocking down vast streets of terraced house around goodison is not the answer. These terrace streets are what make goodison special. If you want to build on a large footprint away from terrace streets, we should be looking at a different site. I've said it before but the Mystery would be an ideal site. On a railway line, good links to own and the airport. Plenty of pubs along Smithdown, Allerton, Wavertree. Still has the terrace streets and Public parks, just nicer ones.

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

I know many traditionalists want Everton to stay in the Walton area, and I would too if possible. However, the council have just pulled down dozens of disused houses on Smithdown Road to build a school. This site would have fit a football stadium on it, easily. Pull down a few more rows of decrepit houses and you've got parking. Pubs would spring up left, right and centre, although there are actually plenty around there anyway. Constant buses into town, not far from Edge Hill station - however walk through Crown Street Park and you'd be in town in 20-25 minutes.

There are probably more roads to be done away with in the area, I wonder if the board are considering it.

 

[Sennott Street]

I'm sorry but knocking down vast streets of terraced house around goodison is not the answer. These terrace streets are what make goodison special. If you want to build on a large footprint away from terrace streets, we should be looking at a different site. I've said it before but the Mystery would be an ideal site. On a railway line, good links to own and the airport. Plenty of pubs along Smithdown, Allerton, Wavertree. Still has the terrace streets and Public parks, just nicer ones.

Cannot agree with this more. We should heed the numerous lessons of failed developments where blocks upon blocks of homes and businesses were demolished in the name of revitalization only to fail miserably. The streets around Goodison Park as they are now give the neighborhood character and atmosphere. Invest in those streets and find a way for a new ground to fit within them, not consume them.

 

[Nymzee]

I'm sorry but knocking down vast streets of terraced house around goodison is not the answer. These terrace streets are what make goodison special. If you want to build on a large footprint away from terrace streets, we should be looking at a different site. I've said it before but the Mystery would be an ideal site. On a railway line, good links to own and the airport. Plenty of pubs along Smithdown, Allerton, Wavertree. Still has the terrace streets and Public parks, just nicer ones.

Agreed. Really not a fan of these massive new stadiums that just sit in the middle of nowhere and have absolutely no club feeling to them. Sure they might look pretty but it just disconnects us from the city and the fans that keep the club going. Walking those terrace streets with thousands of people towards Goodison is just a feeling I don't think we should try and move away from.

 

[Fresh Prince of Belle Val]

I know many traditionalists want Everton to stay in the Walton area, and I would too if possible. However, the council have just pulled down dozens of disused houses on Smithdown Road to build a school. This site would have fit a football stadium on it, easily. Pull down a few more rows of decrepit houses and you've got parking. Pubs would spring up left, right and centre, although there are actually plenty around there anyway. Constant buses into town, not far from Edge Hill station - however walk through Crown Street Park and you'd be in town in 20-25 minutes.

There are probably more roads to be done away with in the area, I wonder if the board are considering it.

That's a decent idea, and there could be many more across the city. The problem is the club want the site and the development paid for by someone else. I see Everton as a club from Liverpool, not Walton. So anywhere within queens drive would be acceptable for me.

 

[Blue Cheese]

It's easy for people who don't live in areas to ship people out of their homes on a whim. Families grew up around those areas for generations, and it's their home. We should all respect that, it's not all about the football club, those families are part of the community as well.

Surely if redevelopment was feasible it would be top of the list. I can only assume it isn't, hence the parp trying to find new land.

 

[maccavennie]

It's easy for people who don't live in areas to ship people out of their homes on a whim. Families grew up around those areas for generations, and it's their home. We should all respect that, it's not all about the football club, those families are part of the community as well.

Surely if redevelopment was feasible it would be top of the list. I can only assume it isn't, hence the parp trying to find new land.

Yep, you only need to look at how the RS went about low balling the local community and putting the area surrounding their stadium in absolute ruin for years and years, in turn house prices plummeted in that area.

People mention that the houses are only 70k so are easy to buy. Well 70k might not sound like much to some but to others it's their entire world, their house might be worth more to them, they might not want to sell. Even if they did it's not that easy then to go and find a house for the same price.

I certainly wouldn't want us to follow the footprint of the RS and bully the residents into selling their property for their own financial gain.

 

[Dymak]

Cannot agree with this more. We should heed the numerous lessons of failed developments where blocks upon blocks of homes and businesses were demolished in the name of revitalization only to fail miserably. The streets around Goodison Park as they are now give the neighborhood character and atmosphere. Invest in those streets and find a way for a new ground to fit within them, not consume them.

It all depends on the reasoning behind the redevelopment, and the quality of the redevelopment once it is built. Someone mentioned how the Fontain Road / Lambeth Gymnasium area had to be redeveloped once again after just 35 years, which indicates that the initial redevelopment there 35 years ago was inadequate, but look at it now, nobody in the right mind could argue against the fact that the area has improved as result of bulldozing the utterly inadequate 'housing' that was once there, and developing the new far superior housing that is there now. Anyone fighting against that redevelopment was an enemy of that community.

I cant get my head around people who complain about a lack of investment, but simultaneously appear determined to maintain the status quo and fight against progression and redevelopment. It's luddite behaviour, in which people cut their noses off to spite their faces. I don't know how much money LFC were offering for the houses around their ground, but you have to ask who is bringing more to the community, LFC or a few people who are determined to remain living in dilapidated housing? The answer is patently obvious.

I don't agree that the character or atmosphere of the area is something to be championed either. Describing the area as having character and being atmospheric may be a great defence mechanism to the reality, but the the truth is that the area is in urgent need of drastic change, unless you have some peculiar obsession of rejecting progress in favour of maintaining the status quo.

 

[The Esk]

An imaginative solution might be to create a UNESCO heritage status around Goodison Park and the surrounding area as an example of the relationship between football and working class communities. As a result of this investment would be provided to maintain the area (and possibly allow a considerate redevelopment of Goodison) plus redirect and increase tourism and tourism expenditure within the city of Liverpool. I have long believed that we (and other football clubs) make little of our historical importance both at local and global levels. If we look at the North West of England we have four of the most recognisable clubs in the world within 35 miles of each other plus (including Everton) six of the founding members of the oldest league in the world's most popular sport.

The richness of football heritage and history plus the local contribution to the global game is immense, yet totally unexploited.