New Everton Stadium

[allen]

Don't think we have to and I doubt Peel will care who owns the stadium at the end of the day.

Yeah, it does seem too good to be true - but of course that doesn’t stop me clinging on to the hope.

I’d hoped that someone coming swinging into the debate suggesting we use gov.uk to prove the claim might have actually done so themselves before suggesting it.

 

[Goat]

Just can't believe an accountant tried to build a stadium without a single shred of funding

He had the funding.

The war in Ukraine has closed many avenues he had available.

 

[PeregrineT]

I thought the stadium had been separated from the club, i.e the Everton stadium company was a separate entity. Which made sense to me in terms of asset protection?

The company is wholly owned by Everton Football Club, if you look at any filing on the gov.uk site they state who the company owners are. Its not been separated, its a sub-company.

 

[Moomin]

Yeah, it does seem too good to be true - but of course that doesn’t stop me clinging on to the hope.

I’d hoped that someone coming swinging into the debate suggesting we use gov.uk to prove the claim might have actually done so themselves before suggesting it.

Even says in the initial press release that Everton Stadium Development Limited have exchanged contracts. That being a subsidary company of Everton Football Club.

The stadium company is now in the hole to MSP for 100 million and we probably need to raise in the region of 160 - 200 million to complete the build.

Banks will be wary to say the least so up step MSP and give Moshiri a nominal fee to own the rights and complete the build. Longterm rent agreed with MSP hawking it out in the summer for concerts galore and sponsorship money.

 

[Ferguson1878]

He had the funding.

The war in Ukraine has closed many avenues he had available.

they where looking for funding years before the ukrainian war started

 

[EFC_FRANCIS]

He had the funding.

The war in Ukraine has closed many avenues he had available.

He had one singular avenue availible through Uncle Usi. His entire plan was solely reliant on that one individual, regardless of how unforseen - or not - the war in Ukraine was that is still a pretty incredible plan to throw all his money at

 

[Goat]

they where looking for funding years before the ukrainian war started

Indeed, but I strongly doubt we would be so firmly in this hole without it.

He had one singular avenue availible through Uncle Usi. His entire plan was solely reliant on that one individual, regardless of how unforseen - or not - the war in Ukraine was that is still a pretty incredible plan to throw all his money at

I would imagine given the links Usmanov has to Putin, this wasnt unforseen.

Which I realise only makes it worse.

 

[Ferguson1878]

trust us to get landed with these cranks johnson kenwright moshiri

 

[PeregrineT]

Yeah, it does seem too good to be true - but of course that doesn’t stop me clinging on to the hope.

I’d hoped that someone coming swinging into the debate suggesting we use gov.uk to prove the claim might have actually done so themselves before suggesting it.

Its publicly traded(and so are filings so anyone can look it up), the club has ownership of the stadium, and ownership of the lease, all up until the point they stop making payments. Obviously its literally impossible for there to be any guarantee only one entity could own it because failed payments or non-payment of taxes would revert ownership. But changing ownership of both the stadium and the lease legally, Im not sure how someone proposes that based on UK laws, outside of boredom and some weird desire to do some extra fear-mongering. If the club makes the payments, the club owns it. Half the fans have even been mislead by certain people to believe its owned by a company separate from the club.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Arsenal's stadium would cost more than BMD if it was built now (it cost almost £400m nearly 20yrs ago). A bigger and structurally more complex stadium. They and Spurs were fully funded by finance and investment bond schemes supported by far higher projected income levels. I haven't derided their or our approach.... just mentioned the difference in terms of financial sustainability, which is now eminently clear.

Spurs recently had to refinance a load of short term debt on the stadium, it is a lot easier to get finance of that nature rather than the long term that they have access to now when the stadium has been built and you deal with factual rather then projected incomes.

Of course the extra income levels will help get those loans that originally paid for the build, all fairly obvious. We being a northern club and not one of the super clubs around us would never get access to those kind of figures a London based club, so what are we supposed to do, nothing?

Even if we park that they had assistance in that they were doing the build in a far better economic situation and as said they would have had a guarantor that we are not allowed to provide.

It seems you are comparing apples and oranges to again negatively shine a light on the club. If Joe Lewis' bank accounts were suddenly frozen and interest rates were as high as they are now they might have had more of a struggle too.

 

[ashwuk76]

Arsenal's stadium would cost more than BMD if it was built now (it cost almost £400m nearly 20yrs ago). A bigger and structurally more complex stadium. They and Spurs were fully funded by finance and investment bond schemes supported by far higher projected income levels. I haven't derided their or our approach.... just mentioned the difference in terms of financial sustainability, which is now eminently clear.

Spurs were also funded by making people and corporate people pu 10 years up front for boxes and suites...

 

[The binman chronicles]

He had one singular avenue availible through Uncle Usi. His entire plan was solely reliant on that one individual, regardless of how unforseen - or not - the war in Ukraine was that is still a pretty incredible plan to throw all his money at

It wasn't oh Usmanov will pay for this, it's more likely that the banks would have just handed over cash when someone has that kind of personal wealth to cover such loans if they ever were called in.

 

[allen]

It’s publicly traded(and so are filings so anyone can look it up), the club has ownership of the stadium, and ownership of the lease, all up until the point they stop making payments. Obviously it’s literally impossible for there to be any guarantee only one entity could own it because failed payments or non-payment of taxes would revert ownership. But changing ownership of both the stadium and the lease legally, Im not sure how someone proposes that based on UK laws, outside of boredom and some weird desire to do some extra fear-mongering. If the club makes the payments, the club owns it. Half the fans have even been mislead by certain people to believe it’s owned by a company separate from the club.

The lease isn’t in the name of Everton Football Club, it’s in the name of Everton Stadium Development - which is presently wholly-owned by Everton FC.

I’ve seen nothing on public record that says that subsidiary - and hence the stadium - is unsellable by Everton as part of the lease terms.

If you know that with the certainty you seem to, please provide evidence.

 

[EFC_FRANCIS]

It wasn't oh Usmanov will pay for this, it's more likely that the banks would have just handed over cash when someone has that kind of personal wealth to cover such loans if they ever were called in.

We were already trying and failing to get loans before the Ukraine invasion. There was a complete lack of appetite to fund it even before that

 

[Tom Hughes]

Spurs recently had to refinance a load of short term debt on the stadium, it is a lot easier to get finance of that nature rather than the long term that they have access to now when the stadium has been built and you deal with factual rather then projected incomes.

Of course the extra income levels will help get those loans that originally paid for the build, all fairly obvious. We being a northern club and not one of the super clubs around us would never get access to those kind of figures a London based club, so what are we supposed to do, nothing?

Even if we park that they had assistance in that they were doing the build in a far better economic situation and as said they would have had a guarantor that we are not allowed to provide.

It seems you are comparing apples and oranges to again negatively shine a light on the club. If Joe Lewis' bank accounts were suddenly frozen and interest rates were as high as they are now they might have had more of a struggle too.

Spurs didn't have to, they chose to refinance because they could and it gave them more flexibility! The point is, the club were able to raise all of the initial finance entirely under their own steam, as did Arsenal before them. They had a far stronger business case and in relative terms, were living within their means! That's the differences!

BMD originally came with the possibility of 2026 CWG finance. Unfortunately, that UK slot was brought fwd to 2022 after the original hosts pulled out, which was too soon for our bid to have any real chance. After that collapsed their was a brief interlude, after which, with no CWG enabling finance, 62k capacity was reduced to 52k.

We ploughed on regardless, with no new enabling developments or leverage and have applied the same scattergun, money-no-object economics to our new-infrastructure spend as we did to our on-pitch one...... and look where we are now on both counts! Completely hamstrung!

So you're asking "what did I expect them to do, nothing?"....... well for starters, I certainly didn't expect them to take the club right to the precipice of football and financial collapse, did you? Do you remember them mentioning at the Titanic hotel reveal that we'll have back to back relegation battles and face P&S inquests because of the resultant debts? Why was the financial plan completely beholden to a sponsorship deal? If so, why wasn't this cash ring-fenced as soon as the financial-borrowing plan failed at the first fence, and again when Russia invaded Ukraine? Its not like they didn't hint at it. Could it be that even they don't believe that the stadium will add sufficient value to balance the debt? Secondly, nearly all other big clubs with ambitions for over 40k capacities have redeveloped, for the precise reasons you outline. Even Spurs is a redevelopment.