New Everton Stadium

[The binman chronicles]

We were already trying and failing to get loans before the Ukraine invasion. There was a complete lack of appetite to fund it even before that

Are you totally privy to that knowledge? Could there have been opportunities to borrow but the costs involved made other options more favourable? There is also a difference between not being able to get finance at all and the message that has come consistently from them that Moshiri needed to fund or find x amount before the bank would loan the last 200 or so million. Given our lowly income situation it was always likely we would have to fund half of the stadium that then jumped to needing to find 500 million.

Whether that is still the case or not is something we'll have to wait and see. Agreement to borrow then does not always mean they'll reach agreement now or next year. Before we tear our hair out though in panic I still believe that as a last resort the council and/or Peel would not let the build fail so a short term bridging loan might be the order of the day. Moshiri would obviously like to avoid that as they'll be more sharks circling smelling blood.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Spurs didn't have to, they chose to refinance because they could and it gave them more flexibility! The point is, the club were able to raise all of the initial finance entirely under their own steam, as did Arsenal before them. They had a far stronger business case and in relative terms, were living within their means! That's the differences!

BMD originally came with the possibility of 2026 CWG finance. Unfortunately, that UK slot was brought fwd to 2022 after the original hosts pulled out, which was too soon for our bid to have any real chance. After that collapsed their was a brief interlude, after which, with no CWG enabling finance, 62k capacity was reduced to 52k.

We ploughed on regardless, with no new enabling developments or leverage and have applied the same scattergun, money-no-object economics to our new-infrastructure spend as we did to our on-pitch one...... and look where we are now on both counts! Completely hamstrung!

So you're asking "what did I expect them to do, nothing?"....... well for starters, I certainly didn't expect them to take the club right to the precipice of football and financial collapse, did you? Do you remember them mentioning at the Titanic hotel reveal that we'll have back to back relegation battles and face P&S inquests because of the resultant debts? Why was the financial plan completely beholden to a sponsorship deal? If so, why wasn't this cash ring-fenced as soon as the financial-borrowing plan failed at the first fence, and again when Russia invaded Ukraine? Its not like they didn't hint at it. Could it be that even they don't believe that the stadium will add sufficient value to balance the debt? Secondly, nearly all other big clubs with ambitions for over 40k capacities have redeveloped, for the precise reasons you outline. Even Spurs is a redevelopment.

Spurs had to refinance as the loans were repayable in 2022. Over 600 million of it, see the short term element of that is exactly why Goldman Sachs confidently let them borrow it in the first place. That is exactly what we are trying to avoid. Once the stadium was opened they were able to refinance over an extended period of time all for a 3% interest rate. So they landed on their feet with that.

Had the rates been what they are now they might have struggled but I don't expect you to see this as you are failing to understand circumstances that applied to one build does not apply to another.

The massive increase in cost which was only known recently is what has caused the mad scramble now. It is a combination of lots of factors that then made it uncomfortable. A few years earlier and the materials would have been a lot cheaper. Had the economy totally flatlined interest rates would have dropped like a stone and the borrowing side would have become cheaper. We got screwed on both.


...And there it is redevelopment of old stadiums which adds bias to most of your posts regarding this.

 

[Dr Baxter]

Anybody have any idea if the concourse areas will be heated in the winter or air conditioned in the summer?

 

[EFC_FRANCIS]

Alex Iwobi, Anthony Gordon, Demarai Gray, Moise Kean, Tom Cannon, Ellis Simms, Ishe Samuels Smith. These boys will have built a stand with the money they raised that disappeared.

 

[Bedfordblue]

Alex Iwobi, Anthony Gordon, Demarai Gray, Moise Kean, Tom Cannon, Ellis Simms, Ishe Samuels Smith. These boys will have built a stand with the money they raised that disappeared.

Will probably be named the ‘Bill Kenwright Stand’, just to rub salt in.

 

[Bedfordblue]

Anybody have any idea if the concourse areas will be heated in the winter or air conditioned in the summer?

Way we operate its more likely to be heated in the summer and cooled in the winter.

 

[matty1878]

Will probably be named the ‘Bill Kenwright Stand’, just to rub salt in.

lol i mean ( when we get the new ground )

he’s hated now… and doesn’t attend

he’s not going to change the fans now

what does he expect at the ground he can’t be allowed in this one to?

 

[Moomin]

Are you totally privy to that knowledge? Could there have been opportunities to borrow but the costs involved made other options more favourable? There is also a difference between not being able to get finance at all and the message that has come consistently from them that Moshiri needed to fund or find x amount before the bank would loan the last 200 or so million. Given our lowly income situation it was always likely we would have to fund half of the stadium that then jumped to needing to find 500 million.

Whether that is still the case or not is something we'll have to wait and see. Agreement to borrow then does not always mean they'll reach agreement now or next year. Before we tear our hair out though in panic I still believe that as a last resort the council and/or Peel would not let the build fail so a short term bridging loan might be the order of the day. Moshiri would obviously like to avoid that as they'll be more sharks circling smelling blood.

We were looking for a funding deal while Elstone was CEO for Bramley Moore Dock back in 2017

Pretty sure JP Morgan got tasked to find investment.

 

[PeregrineT]

The lease isn’t in the name of Everton Football Club, it’s in the name of Everton Stadium Development - which is presently wholly-owned by Everton FC.

I’ve seen nothing on public record that says that subsidiary - and hence the stadium - is unsellable by Everton as part of the lease terms.

If you know that with the certainty you seem to, please provide evidence.

Everton Football Club have a sub-lease of the property. So the lease is Everton Stadium Development(owned by the club), and then there is a sub-lease by the club itself.

Ive seen nothing on public record that says the subsidiary can be sold by Everton without a breach, if theres some way you can figure out for them to legally pull that off by all means share.

 

[The binman chronicles]

We were looking for a funding deal while Elstone was CEO for Bramley Moore Dock back in 2017

Pretty sure JP Morgan got tasked to find investment.

Yes that looks to be the case, I would say in the vacuum of official news from the club we don't know what the outcome of that was though. Is this where someone has said they'd pony up 200 million for half the build cost before it went to beyond 700 million? Did one bank say they would give the club 100 million to start the ground works but the interest on that (given it was 2 years ago also) would have mounted up far more than what he could get it from other sources for? We assume therefore it fell on its arse, was that really the case and did they just get an expected answer that may not have been great news but not terrible either.

I'm not trying to say Moshiri is perfect or the club have done everything in the correct manner, obviously they haven't. However the stories that fly about are usually just that. There may be elements of truth within them but we don't have access to be able to fully understand the goings on at the club, a lot of that is down to poor communication and some will be down to not wanting to divulge all the secrets and inner workings.

People said it would never be built and yet there it is looking more or less what the design showed. You'd hope there would be a larger plan and the people who have invested money so far would have had to have seen the evidence of such to handover the cash. If they haven't then they are dummies.

 

[Jeff Jones]

The flag thing is yet another example of poor PR by Everton . Most hotels literature says handy for Anfield but rarely mentions Goodison. It's up to our club to get our name out there.

We've been bombarded online here in Melbourne with a big, glossy ad' selling Liverpool as great tourist spot.

LFC are all over the front page and there are even references to just going there, never mind the stadium tour, and something about abseiling, whatever that is, but absolutely nothing about Everton FC. I did a random search for Liverpool visits and it was more of the same.

There was even a long list of sites connected to sport, and again, LFC everywhere , but not a mention of Everton.

 

[Hinchcliffe's Corner]

lol i mean ( when we get the new ground )

he’s hated now… and doesn’t attend

he’s not going to change the fans now

what does he expect at the ground he can’t be allowed in this one to?

He'll be there to cut the ribbon to open it Matty.

 

[BNJ1878]

The other thing is what happens Goodison - we clearly cant afford that development either.

It's safe to say that that is dead.

All dreamt up with the best intentions of people who were never going to pay for it. (Bullshit Bill and DBB)

 

[Dougie]

It's safe to say that that is dead.

All dreamt up with the best intentions of people who were never going to pay for it. (Bullshit Bill and DBB)

Probably be affordable housing.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Spurs had to refinance as the loans were repayable in 2022. Over 600 million of it, see the short term element of that is exactly why Goldman Sachs confidently let them borrow it in the first place. That is exactly what we are trying to avoid. Once the stadium was opened they were able to refinance over an extended period of time all for a 3% interest rate. So they landed on their feet with that.

Had the rates been what they are now they might have struggled but I don't expect you to see this as you are failing to understand circumstances that applied to one build does not apply to another.

The massive increase in cost which was only known recently is what has caused the mad scramble now. It is a combination of lots of factors that then made it uncomfortable. A few years earlier and the materials would have been a lot cheaper. Had the economy totally flatlined interest rates would have dropped like a stone and the borrowing side would have become cheaper. We got screwed on both.


...And there it is redevelopment of old stadiums which adds bias to most of your posts regarding this.

Yes, other things have certainly contrived against us.... but as others have said, much of it predates the current economics. The initial failed attempt at securing finance was before anything was built. Many of the subsequent on-going attempts were also long before the Russian invasion, which was 18 months ago, and before any steel had been erected.... so we committed hundreds of millions in full knowledge of the circumstances you're referring to.

It's not a bias at all, it's the view held by most of the larger clubs, based on the same basic economic principles of affordability you alluded to yourself. You asked if I thought they should "do nothing".... my simple reply was no, they had the same options as most of these other clubs. They simply chose the expensive one. Of course, that's perfectly fine as long as the owner's intentions are at least medium term and it's financially viable, or if they're prepared to foot the entire bill and absorb the risk if that viability is at all questionable or economically fragile. Otherwise, they've essentially gambled with our club's whole future!