Tim UpperBullen
Player Valuation: £1m
My guess would be if you look at the price of Liverpool season tickets for the Stand you want you would not be far off. So price of South stand similar to the kop
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The binman chronicles
Player Valuation: £80m
The binman chronicles
Player Valuation: £80m
Tom Hughes
Player Valuation: £10m
"Except to me?" You mean except to the vast majority of larger clubs who have all redeveloped their existing sites precisely because of "the financials" you claim favours BMD? The club has been taken to the precipice by this shower and the decision-makers have all either been sacked or are doing a runner before its even built.... and you're claiming its financial prudence? Seriously?
Only Arsenal have built a whole new 50k+ stadium on a new site, (because they had no choice as Highbury was listed and more tightly restricted by listed properties all around). Only them and Spurs have built a whole new 50k+ stadium from scratch, chiefly because their massive high-end corporate capacity helped cross-subsidise the bulk of the build. A funding lever that both dwarf BMD's many times over.
I gave you rough rounded-up costings of getting GP upto similar or significantly higher capacity a while ago...... using cost per seat figures from other projects. You never came back. For obvious reasons!
For a small fraction of the cost of BMD, GP could've been expanded to a greater capacity than BMD if required and it wouldn't have been a crude facelift at all. That much reduced cost would've enabled the addition of significantly more and higher value corporate too, including far more boxes and/or exclusive corporate tiers. We all know that we need far more corporate than the current offering, but just over 400 box seats at BMD is absolutely tiny compared to all of the larger clubs and even many of the minnows. It also has to be remembered that the club needs a lot of cheap capacity too. A large proportion of our fanbase struggle to afford the current ticket prices, nevermind 20-30% hikes that may cost-out many of our current regulars. The cost of BMD and the relatively small high-end corporate capacity means that general admission prices must rise significantly too, because there is little or no cross subsidy when you only have 20 boxes and predominately corporate lite premium seats.
I've asked repeatedly what the projected income at BMD will be..... and no-one knows, even at this stage? That's farcical, and also very telling. Spurs and Arsenal showed their projections in the planning stage and had no problems generating the financial packages under their own fiscal steam as a result, no sugar daddy required, and in Spurs case, even no naming rights. We just had a massive money-laundering property development strategy, with the Russian hoping to wash his cash by dipping his toe into a lucrative Canary Wharf type Liverpool waters scheme..... securing zero enabling funding in the process! The financial plan accompanying it was at best token and collapsed before the dock was even filled. With no takers from ANY financial instutions at any point! We plodded on regardless!
Our only hope now is that Moshiri/ Usmanov take the full hit for the debt to date and our out-of-the-pot and into-the-fire new shark-investment ambulance-chasing owners can somehow fund the remainder to attract some real wealth, who can absorb any remaining debt. Hopefully while not completely sinking the club without trace in the process.... Oh, and that Dyche can somehow keep the team's collective head above water on a zero-net-spend budget in the meantime! Apart from those minor details.... as you say, the financials are brilliant!
I'm fairly regularly in the Bramley Moore watching the progress as keenly as any of you, (if anyone ever wants to discuss over a pint, upstairs offers far better views btw, if you ever get the chance). That doesn't mean I have to swallow the hard sell about "yellow walls" nor happy clap the same propagandist nonsense about GP, which was disproved decades ago.
Hopefully we'll survive this whole episode without having to hit the "big reset", whatever that means! Was that last line too "doom-mongering" for some of the more sensitive souls....? haha.
Who did you contact?
The binman chronicles
Player Valuation: £80m
I've been through this with you more times than I can count Tom. So again...
The plan would have to go something like this, years dot to 3 we build a massive Park End upper tier similar to what they have across the park and as we don't have an upper tier to rip out it will be cheaper but still probably at least 70 million if we bake in some better hospitality sections. Great we now have a 49k capacity and even if the extras all pay an adult ticket price (this won't happen of course) that's an extra 550k per match. To repay that loan to be able to take on the next phase means almost all of that income would go on repayment.
We would lose almost all of the car park and fan plaza which will decrease income - how much I don't know but it will be something. Supporters still stick to their habits of drinking in pubs and getting into the stadium as late as possible, so not much change there. People who are currently sat behind posts in the other stands may move to the new upper tier as the demand would decrease dramatically now there isn't a countdown on Goodison remaining. This might mean we are paying for the redevelopment out of the club's pocket or we need to repay over a longer term.
Years 3 to 10 (possibly even 13-15) we've payed off enough of the 70 million and increased income through TV deals to think about redeveloping another stand. Only this time the business case is looking ropey as we have a 49k stadium that is regularly only filled by 45-47k. It is decided rightly this is due to poor facilities and restricted views so we push on regardless but whatever stand you pick it isn't going to be easy and will need the footprint expanded substantially and time and inflation means this stand is going to cost at least 150 million but probably a lot more. At this point if we target a total capacity of 60k we can rebuild say the main stand by straightening the road and adding 8 to 10k seats to make the extra seats pay the debt you are taking on and we'll run into the fact we'll lose capacity while it is being rebuilt. If in a hypothetical world we've paid off the PE development by this point would all go to pay for the extra cost the new stand would cost. Years 11-15 to 29-31 would be spent building and repaying that.
This also means redevelopment of the GS and BR would be entirely just to modernise as adding seats would take us beyond 60k which we probably wouldn't fill as in all this time we haven't added income to go back into the team.
No tournaments, no concerts, increases in stadium tours, little publicity. I love Goodison but by knocking down the quaintness it would stop being what is anyhow. If our board had been forward thinking and rebuilt at least two of the stands to what is now required it would have been great to stay and complete the job. They unfortunately didn't.
Yes BM is currently a problem to be resolved but as long as the new owners can sort out the build costs into a respectable bank loan, with half decent naming rights it will make us money to invest into the team and a hell of a lot sooner than what we could have achieved at Goodison. It's done anyhow it's pointless going around in circles, difficult or brilliant we have to get on with it.
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how is this coming along
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Nice view of the goal….
I do indeed stand corrected, I thought H&S put paid to them
suave 1878
Player Valuation: £500k
Copied from another post
Yes, as that was the brief: "all seats to have unobstructed views of the pitch". Although all seats will have line of sight of the PITCH a vertically-challenged person sitting at the corner(s) seats you're focusing on, will not see much at all of the Home/South Stand crowds.
So pitch view guaranteed but maybe not able to see across south or north stand
jonnyboy316
Player Valuation: £35m
I agree with a lot of this and on one level I can’t believe they have put the club at risk like this. However, long term and by long term I mean decades from now (when the associated debt is paid) if we do avoid the ‘big reset’ we are better off on the Docks than at Goodison.
It is sad to leave but this club needs a fresh start and in time there will be development to the area surrounding the stadium and probably upgrades to the transport infrastructure. At some point we will win the lottery with the right ownership and it will come together. It might come too late for us though
The binman chronicles
Player Valuation: £80m
Thankfully there were three empty seats to my right. Just moving one meant I could see the posts (not the net though), the second seat along gave me a decent view.
AndyRJ
Player Valuation: £6m
The only thing those walls will obstruct is a view of some of the south stand when seated.
You can see from the image below that almost that entire bank of seats is behind the goal line and the wall itself is well behind it.
