Newcastle Utd (and Viz)

[Cool_Blue]

lollollollollol Could you imagine.

Heads have completely fallen off at SS with this lockdown

But back to football related matters.........I’ve always thought there are only so many top, top players to go around, and because of the sheikhs, Citeh are ahead of the rest with regard to this. MU & the RS might or might not have the money, but have the pull of past success, so what is leftover for the rest? Just how many mega rich clubs can be accommodated in one league? Lots of those top players would much rather live and work in Paris or Barcelona or Milan rather than say, Newcastle, but when Ravanelli swapped a villa overlooking Lake Como for a view of Middlesborough docks it proved that anything is possible I guess.

 

[Zatara]

Oh well. And there was @Spotty promising us Newcastle were about to make the Premiership exciting again.

I mean obviously. If the Reuben brothers wanted to pump money in, they would just have bought the club in the year+ the Saudis were scraping around trying to justify spending 340m (which they still haven't done).

The skin in the game stuff is interesting and I hadn't thought of it like that. Essentially it hints they are concerned Newcastle will keep its value, and if others want to benefit from building works (The Reuben Brothers) and from running a club (probably what Staveley has been selling them) they insist on some level of financial commitment.

My view on this, was that Staveley may have convinced once of the entourage to invest to make money. I doubt the senior figures are even that aware of it, as you say it's small fry for them. I also think, with the impending oil crisis (which will not be going back to normal) they will be far more ore occupied with this, than funding a football club.

Anyone who comes on spouting off oil will return to normal and they're going to come in and blow loads of money I would politely suggested is absolutely clueless and not worth listening too.

I am struggling to see the Saudi motivation in all this, other than as a satellite holding in their investment portfolio that might rise in value.

Who owns football clubs, and why?

Local wealthy fans. Steve Lansdown at Bristol City. Bloke at Stoke.
Countries. City & PSG
Businessmen as a cash cow to leverage other sports stuff. Arsenal/United maybe. RS deffo.
Rich folk with an eye a bigger prize. Us.

This lot fit non of those, other than maybe the last one. (Sell SJP and shift the club?) So maybe they reckon that by lobbing cash at Newcastle their profile and success (sic) will be spectacular and they will reap huge rewards. (Doubt it)

Its a poser and no mistake.

Sportswashing or sportwashing is the hosting of a sporting event, or owning of a team as a means for a country to improve its reputation, particularly if it has a poor record on human rights.

For example, Amnesty International's UK branch criticised the choice of Azerbaijan as host of the 2019 UEFA Europa League Final on the basis of its human rights violations, calling the hosting of the final an "attempt to sportswash its image".[1]



Basically shouting LOOK OVER THERE, while they murder everybody.

I think they have about 250billion RayRay, they dont need money.

I get that. But they need to create money for when the oil runs out. Dubai had the same thing about 30 years ago so went all liberal and built stuff so footballers would go there a lot.

They are clearly talented investment managers, but buying Newcastle doesnt make much investment sense. Well, it does, if you buy them, and just ride the wave of football inflation. (up till a few weeks ago anyrate).

The investment fund is north of $300 billion.

Were talking about a transaction in the region of 0.1% of the total book value. This transaction has been haggled down and rather than self fund they have offloaded 20% of the risk to two groups who can manage the asset.

The Saudis risk is offset by 20% and also the 2 groups now have 'skin in the game'.

If they wanted to pump huge amounts of money into a project i wouldnt need partners at 20%. It would make no sense.

My view is that they just want to gradually improve the business and sell it off after a few years.

Its a total punt.

 

[The Fish]

Jesus.

They are worth 250bn. That will be greatly reduced with the oil crisis (the one you expect to return back to normal soon lol).

When City were bought out, it happened in a day, they didn't haggle over years around 40m, they didnt give liquidity away for others, or borrow money from Ashley to raise the funds.

Everton's owners have spent the 3rd most in football history. You will be doing well to have the investment we had. And we have not really gone anywhere with it. In fairness, we now have a top DOF and manager so probably just at the point we move forward, but it's taken 4 years to get there. It doesnt happen overnight anymore. Even for an investment level that is in the top 3 of English football history (which you will be doing well to emulate).

I'm not trying to be nasty, but what you expect is very unlikely to happen. Call it me being cruel to be kind. Maybe you emulate City and spends billions in the first couple of years. We will have any idea if you are by the end of the summer I suppose.

There are reasons for all this though. Shinawatra needed to sell and sell fast.

Also, you keep repeating the last bit, but PIF are not borrowing money from Ashley to do the deal. Not at all, in fact because that money has gone from the club, to Staveley's PCP capital partners. So not Ashley, and not PIF.

 

[The Fish]

You mean Mike Ashley the self-made multi-billionaire?

Why crop the quote?

 

[The Fish]

You're a Newcastle fan posting on an Everton forum defending Newcastle. What reaction did you expect?

Some pettiness and tribalism from a minority, but some reasonaed discussion from the majority.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Some pettiness and tribalism from a minority, but some reasonaed discussion from the majority.

Optimist, eh?

 

[catcherintherye]

The investment fund is north of $300 billion.

Were talking about a transaction in the region of 0.1% of the total book value. This transaction has been haggled down and rather than self fund they have offloaded 20% of the risk to two groups who can manage the asset.

The Saudis risk is offset by 20% and also the 2 groups now have 'skin in the game'.

If they wanted to pump huge amounts of money into a project i wouldnt need partners at 20%. It would make no sense.

My view is that they just want to gradually improve the business and sell it off after a few years.

Its a total punt.

I said similar back to you a week or so ago mate. I don't remember City or Chelsea messing about with multiple partners when buying the club. If you were serious about making major investments and radically improving the value of the product, why would you allow 2 minority shareholders to come along for the ride? You just pay them their fee and see them off.

The other point I'd make in this, is the oil crash shouldn't be underestimated. I mean I have the Saudi wealth at 250bn ish. I would imagine a lot of that is an implied value of how much oil is worth at the time of writing (standard being 100 per gallon). If that sinks to say 30 and doesn't recover for some time, that could see the above wealth go down to potentially 100bn?

Now of course this is eye watering sums of money still. However Newcastle fans seem to think it will all be spent on them. They will have hundreds of projects like Newcastle, in various fields. Sports events, horses, businesses, research facilities, arts centre's etc. I would imagine none of them expect billions to be paid in to turn them around. As money gets tight, these are the sort of things that start to get questioned and challenged.

You also have to factor in, they have a very big country to run. A country that is going to be under enormous strife with the merging oil crisis over the medium term.Such a sharp shock to the system, and a trade war will likely focus minds on the essential product. It's hard to put into words the significance of oil to the Saudi economy, but it's worth substantially more than the top 7 or 8 sectors are to our economy combined. Imagine if all of those sectors, simultaneously lost 50% of their revenue overnight?

So we wait and see. I don't think approaching an out of work and sacked Pochettinno along with getting Keegan back and Ian Ayre in is really indicative of a club going to the top end of the league with spending.

 

[PhilM]

Greggs

How dare you say such derogatory comments about Greggs! It'll either be pound bakery or some horse rolls.

 

[catcherintherye]

There are reasons for all this though. Shinawatra needed to sell and sell fast.

Also, you keep repeating the last bit, but PIF are not borrowing money from Ashley to do the deal. Not at all, in fact because that money has gone from the club, to Staveley's PCP capital partners. So not Ashley, and not PIF.

I do find it odd mate, that you are picking up that quote, as opposed to your fellow Geordies quote that oil will be back to normal in a few weeks. Thats nuts.

As for that, maybe he did. Chelsea was done fast as well. Moshiri swooped in quickly. In general, in business as well as football if a takeover mean business with spending they tend to move quickly, pay whats asked and get on with it. That is not the approach that has been taken at Newcastle. It doesn't mean it's impossible they spend big, it just makes it unlikely on the balance of probability.

I mean your mate, going on about intelligence that tells him the Reuben Brothers are going to spend big is clearly being given wrong information.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Some pettiness and tribalism from a minority, but some reasonaed discussion from the majority.

8=====D~~~~

 

[The Fish]

This would be glorious. He would take them down, again.

Would be delighted to see Keegan given an ambassadorial role at the club. Shouldn't be involved in anything close tot he first team.

Oh and he never took us down.

 

[The Fish]

I do find it odd mate, that you are picking up that quote, as opposed to your fellow Geordies quote that oil will be back to normal in a few weeks. Thats nuts.

As for that, maybe he did. Chelsea was done fast as well. Moshiri swooped in quickly. In general, in business as well as football if a takeover mean business with spending they tend to move quickly, pay whats asked and get on with it. That is not the approach that has been taken at Newcastle. It doesn't mean it's impossible they spend big, it just makes it unlikely on the balance of probability.

I mean your mate, going on about intelligence that tells him the Reuben Brothers are going to spend big is clearly being given wrong information.

I pick up that quote because it's misleading, it's up to @Spotty to defend his position, not me.

Again, nobody has bought a club from Mike Ashley before and several parties have failed. He's a famously ornery negotiator who has a reputation for moving goalposts and making kneejerk decisions. You ask the reasonable question, why has this takeover been so protracted. I say the answer lies with Ashley, not the buyers. It doesn't help that there are three parties and that one party has so much baggage.

 

[The Fish]

Optimist, eh?

You know what us deluded Geordies are like, always hope for the best and get disappointed.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

You know what us deluded Geordies are like, always hope for the best and get disappointed.

I know. I remember every year thinking "Surely this time Geoff will ready for that mob from Denton Burn to come and set fire to the Grove!" but every time he fell for it, just hoping that it would be alright.

 

[MikeH72]

Here’s the big fat Geordie mouthpiece absolutely frothing for an hour that people want the season voided. Oh but the people of Newcastle hate them I heard on here.




Kindred spirits