Jamiednm
Player Valuation: £40m
If he does the RS in the final, I'd be smitten!
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If he does the RS in the final, I'd be smitten!
ijjysmith
Calm
I'd make a banner.
That's why I'm not totally convinced Mourinho is the right manager for us.
bitter-no-better
Player Valuation: £25m
Phil Brown is a tantastic manager.
Jamiednm
Player Valuation: £40m
This is where I can see why Utd may shun JM - because he doesn't develop youth.
But for us, with 21 years without a trophy and needing a huge catalyst to put us back in the mix in a very competitive environment, it's a very attractive proposition for me.
bluestevon
Player Valuation: £80m
Aye mate, thing is with bayern and PSG basically having a monopoly on their leagues, Barca, Madrid and Athletico similarly dominating their own and between them having the Cl etc boxed off, their isn't a whole lot of scope for managers to actually win things around the other leagues - it's why the names mentioned are ones who have won 'minor' leagues like the dutch or are 'rated' managers who havent won anything - Bielsa and Favre for example, the ones that HAVE won things tend to have been at the clubs i've mentioned and lately they have a habit of just merry go rounding the managers between themselves.
A good chairman and owner beats a good manager any day of the week for me, can't think of any club that has ever really acheived anything with a bad chairman but can think of lots of good chairman who have had their clubs winning things with average managers.
Ideally you want both though ofc
TheHumbleEgg
Player Valuation: £15m
...ditto, couple of manc mates all misty-eyed over the possibility of this balding Welsh philanderer being sat in the big chair. Odd.
Boss gooser he may be but he's practically untried management wise yet they seem totally devoted to it. One even used the word 'destiny'
The tit.
AndyC
Player Valuation: £70m
You've either got a strange sense of humour or in desperate need of medication and a straight-jacket
ijjysmith
Calm
My Bolton supporting mate reckons he's going back there.
ANOTHER ONE MISSED KENWRIGHT
Duncan Disorderley
Player Valuation: £750k
Cannot believe that people are not convinced by Jose, he is in the top 3 managers in the world! We must pull out all the stops if there is even a remote possibility of getting him.
bluestevon
Player Valuation: £80m
Bit of a Myth that
Have a read of this which debunks the notion pretty well
DUNCAN CASTLES ON JOSE MOURINHO'S CRITICS
When Jose Mourinho's critics reach for sticks to beat him with, they studiously avoid the manager's trophy cabinet. The standard complaints are that his football is too defensive; that his triumphs have been funded by excessive transfer spending; that he is a short-term coach who never remains long in a post; that he has zero interest in promoting players from a club's youth ranks.
These critiques persist regardless of clear evidence to the contrary. In some mystical manner, for example, Mourinho's alleged addiction to bus parking resulted in Real Madrid winning La Liga with a record points total, a record 121 goals scored, a record goal difference of 89, and a record number of 16 away wins in 19 fixtures.
Despite working for two of the most profligate clubs in world football – Roman Abramovich's early-era Chelsea and Florentino Perez's Madrid – the highest transfer fee a club has paid at his request is €38million. Moreover, bringing the English title back to Chelsea last year established Mourinho as the only manager to win the Premier League with a negative net spend on such fees.
As for length of tenure, leaving FC Porto after claiming back-to-back Portuguese Primeira Ligas, the UEFA Cup and the Champions League was essentially inevitable. Moving from Internazionale to Madrid after including another European Cup in an unprecedented Italian treble was also understandable. Twice Abramovich has terminated Mourinho's employment at Chelsea, yet his first stay at Stamford Bridge was just seven months shorter than Pep Guardiola's longest period in charge of a club. Though Guardiola exited Barcelona of his own volition, the Catalan is rarely criticized for supposed short-termism.
Manchester United’s inexperienced PLC board has floated all these critiques as reasons not to hire Mourinho to solve the club's manifest problems. This counter-factual debate all the more bizarre when current coach Louis van Gaal is on course to lead United's lowest scoring Premier League campaign, has spent far more on fees in two summers at Old Trafford than Sir Alex Ferguson did in 26, and claims to have promised his wife he will not continue in the job beyond 2017 whatever happens.
Some on United's board have also bought the line that Mourinho has no interest in developing the careers of young footballers. As one of Mourinho's closest friends in football, Eladio Parames, put it recently: “In Portugal there is an old saying: 'A lie repeated a thousand times is taken as a truth.' But, as a matter of fact, it doesn't stop being a lie, even if whoever hears or reads it may think it is true.”
Parames, who recommended Mourinho for his first managerial position and has advised him throughout his career, details his friend's actual track record on promoting youth. In reality, Mourinho's policy has been to play any youngster “with the ability to become top players and play for the first team.”
During his three years at Madrid – a club which buys global stars at record fees for marketing and political purposes – the Portuguese coach gave no less than 20 academy products their first-team debuts. In chronological order Mourinho's 'canteranos' were Juan Carlos, David Mateos, Antonio Adan, Pablo Sarabia, Alvaro Morata, Alex Fernandez, Nacho Fernandez, Tomas Mejias, Jesus Fernandez, Joselu, Pedro Mendes, Jese, Jorge Casado, Fernando Pacheco, Jose Rodriguez, Denis Cheryshev, Casemiro, Fabinho, Omar Mascarell and Diego Llorente.
“In the last three years at Madrid, with Carlo Ancelotti, Rafael Benitez and Zinedine Zidane, only nine canteranos had the opportunity to make their debut in the first team,” Parames said. “Yet it is claimed Mourinho was the one that didn't give opportunities to the young players. They were in his plans, they had their chances. Some were sold and Real Madrid made money for further investments. Others are still in the club.”
At Inter, another club obsessed with the transfer market, Mourinho made the 18-year-old Davide Santon his first-choice left back. At Porto, the 19-year-old Carlos Alberto became the second youngest footballer to score in a Champions League Final. A third teenager, Raphael Varane, went into the center of Madrid's defense ahead of Pepe and Sergio Ramos.
Even at Chelsea, a club whose academy has spent more on recruiting and preparing youngsters since Abramovich's arrival than any competitor yet failed to deliver a single individual who any of the Russian's carousel of coaches considered good enough to make a long-term starter, Mourinho attempted to promote youth. Steven Watt, Lenny Pidgeley, Anthony Grant, Jimmy Smith, Ben Sahar, Michael Woods, Sam Hutchinson, Lewis Baker, John Swift, Tomas Kalas, Dominic Solanke, Andreas Christensen, Ruben Loftus-Cheek and Bertrand Traore are amongst his debutants. If many of the names – particularly from his first stint at Chelsea – are not well known, it is a reflection of what they have subsequently achieved in the sport rather than the opportunity offered to them.
Solanke is Chelsea's youngest ever Champions League player. Kalas played 90 minutes in Chelsea's critically important 2-0 win at Liverpool in 2014. Mourinho recognized Loftus-Cheek's talent, but sought to develop the highly paid teenager's mental strength. As soon as young signings such as Arjen Robben, Petr Cech and Kurt Zouma earned Mourinho's confidence, they became first-team regulars.
“There are young players in the first-team squads by option of their coaches, and there are some who only have their chance because of injuries in the first team players,” Parames said. “If it's impossible to deny that Mourinho's teams had an amazing record in a low number of injuries, then it is also important to reflect and see the reasons why some clubs and managers have to play with young players.
“At Madrid, Iker Casillas was put the bench so young Antonio Adan could play. Similarly, at Inter, Chivu was left out in favour of Santon. At Chelsea, Zouma was chosen ahead of Gary Cahill and David Luiz, and before that Carlo Cudicini had to give way to the young Cech. These were options. Not needs - options. Options from the coach that never gives a chance to young players.”
Or so that particular Mourinho myth goes
Jamiednm
Player Valuation: £40m
Some of them are probably institutionalised after decades of sustained success, even Ferguson. United in the 90s and 00s were a sporting dynasty, and SOME probably hold on to the idea of an all-conquering Giggs as a return to their glory days.
On the other hand, my bro-in-law is a season ticket holder at OT and has been calling for Mourinho all season.
I'm convinced by José's qualities as a manager. Just think it would be a crying shame to neglect our youth system. Especially at the moment.
bluestevon
Player Valuation: £80m
read my post above dutch mate, its a myth
Jamiednm
Player Valuation: £40m
Bit of a Myth that
Have a read of this which debunks the notion pretty well
DUNCAN CASTLES ON JOSE MOURINHO'S CRITICS
When Jose Mourinho's critics reach for sticks to beat him with, they studiously avoid the manager's trophy cabinet. The standard complaints are that his football is too defensive; that his triumphs have been funded by excessive transfer spending; that he is a short-term coach who never remains long in a post; that he has zero interest in promoting players from a club's youth ranks.
These critiques persist regardless of clear evidence to the contrary. In some mystical manner, for example, Mourinho's alleged addiction to bus parking resulted in Real Madrid winning La Liga with a record points total, a record 121 goals scored, a record goal difference of 89, and a record number of 16 away wins in 19 fixtures.
Despite working for two of the most profligate clubs in world football – Roman Abramovich's early-era Chelsea and Florentino Perez's Madrid – the highest transfer fee a club has paid at his request is €38million. Moreover, bringing the English title back to Chelsea last year established Mourinho as the only manager to win the Premier League with a negative net spend on such fees.
As for length of tenure, leaving FC Porto after claiming back-to-back Portuguese Primeira Ligas, the UEFA Cup and the Champions League was essentially inevitable. Moving from Internazionale to Madrid after including another European Cup in an unprecedented Italian treble was also understandable. Twice Abramovich has terminated Mourinho's employment at Chelsea, yet his first stay at Stamford Bridge was just seven months shorter than Pep Guardiola's longest period in charge of a club. Though Guardiola exited Barcelona of his own volition, the Catalan is rarely criticized for supposed short-termism.
Manchester United’s inexperienced PLC board has floated all these critiques as reasons not to hire Mourinho to solve the club's manifest problems. This counter-factual debate all the more bizarre when current coach Louis van Gaal is on course to lead United's lowest scoring Premier League campaign, has spent far more on fees in two summers at Old Trafford than Sir Alex Ferguson did in 26, and claims to have promised his wife he will not continue in the job beyond 2017 whatever happens.
Some on United's board have also bought the line that Mourinho has no interest in developing the careers of young footballers. As one of Mourinho's closest friends in football, Eladio Parames, put it recently: “In Portugal there is an old saying: 'A lie repeated a thousand times is taken as a truth.' But, as a matter of fact, it doesn't stop being a lie, even if whoever hears or reads it may think it is true.”
Parames, who recommended Mourinho for his first managerial position and has advised him throughout his career, details his friend's actual track record on promoting youth. In reality, Mourinho's policy has been to play any youngster “with the ability to become top players and play for the first team.”
During his three years at Madrid – a club which buys global stars at record fees for marketing and political purposes – the Portuguese coach gave no less than 20 academy products their first-team debuts. In chronological order Mourinho's 'canteranos' were Juan Carlos, David Mateos, Antonio Adan, Pablo Sarabia, Alvaro Morata, Alex Fernandez, Nacho Fernandez, Tomas Mejias, Jesus Fernandez, Joselu, Pedro Mendes, Jese, Jorge Casado, Fernando Pacheco, Jose Rodriguez, Denis Cheryshev, Casemiro, Fabinho, Omar Mascarell and Diego Llorente.
“In the last three years at Madrid, with Carlo Ancelotti, Rafael Benitez and Zinedine Zidane, only nine canteranos had the opportunity to make their debut in the first team,” Parames said. “Yet it is claimed Mourinho was the one that didn't give opportunities to the young players. They were in his plans, they had their chances. Some were sold and Real Madrid made money for further investments. Others are still in the club.”
At Inter, another club obsessed with the transfer market, Mourinho made the 18-year-old Davide Santon his first-choice left back. At Porto, the 19-year-old Carlos Alberto became the second youngest footballer to score in a Champions League Final. A third teenager, Raphael Varane, went into the center of Madrid's defense ahead of Pepe and Sergio Ramos.
Even at Chelsea, a club whose academy has spent more on recruiting and preparing youngsters since Abramovich's arrival than any competitor yet failed to deliver a single individual who any of the Russian's carousel of coaches considered good enough to make a long-term starter, Mourinho attempted to promote youth. Steven Watt, Lenny Pidgeley, Anthony Grant, Jimmy Smith, Ben Sahar, Michael Woods, Sam Hutchinson, Lewis Baker, John Swift, Tomas Kalas, Dominic Solanke, Andreas Christensen, Ruben Loftus-Cheek and Bertrand Traore are amongst his debutants. If many of the names – particularly from his first stint at Chelsea – are not well known, it is a reflection of what they have subsequently achieved in the sport rather than the opportunity offered to them.
Solanke is Chelsea's youngest ever Champions League player. Kalas played 90 minutes in Chelsea's critically important 2-0 win at Liverpool in 2014. Mourinho recognized Loftus-Cheek's talent, but sought to develop the highly paid teenager's mental strength. As soon as young signings such as Arjen Robben, Petr Cech and Kurt Zouma earned Mourinho's confidence, they became first-team regulars.
“There are young players in the first-team squads by option of their coaches, and there are some who only have their chance because of injuries in the first team players,” Parames said. “If it's impossible to deny that Mourinho's teams had an amazing record in a low number of injuries, then it is also important to reflect and see the reasons why some clubs and managers have to play with young players.
“At Madrid, Iker Casillas was put the bench so young Antonio Adan could play. Similarly, at Inter, Chivu was left out in favour of Santon. At Chelsea, Zouma was chosen ahead of Gary Cahill and David Luiz, and before that Carlo Cudicini had to give way to the young Cech. These were options. Not needs - options. Options from the coach that never gives a chance to young players.”
Or so that particular Mourinho myth goes
I stopped reading after a while because this will add to the pain if we don't get him!
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