Nick Clegg V Nigel Farage.

[EFCNIK]

I don't think Farage is a racist at all. He's certainly nowhere near the likes of Tommy Robinson or EFCNik. On many points I actually agree with him - there should be a restriction on movement and there certainly shouldn't be a blanket ban on discussing membership of the EU, or on a referendum for the British people after forty years. I agree with him too that the EU model is outdated and doomed to fail.

It's actually not Farage I have a problem with - the problem is that, him aside, pretty much his entire party are the upper class version of the EDL. They're not arsed about the political discussion of this, they just want the darkies and Igor from Romania to go away.

The reason Farage wins these debates hands down is because he talks sense on many issues and on quite a few he's even-handed on the debate (except his dismissal of EU financial benefits to our economy right now - dismissing that loses him a lot of credibility overall). The reason he'll never actually be in any position of power is because 99% of his party doesn't.

Clegg has fell down in the debates because whilst he has the correct argument on economics, he's not prepared to actively address the concerns of the common man in relation to the societal detriment of immigration. It's not as bad as the likes of UKIP make out, and if he approached the matter in a calm, rational way, he'd probably win - but instead he's scoring own goals with that Indian leaflet and scaremongering about UKIP.

Well in tubes. Loving the racist tag in there as well. Critics of Islam and it's ability to co exist in a tolerant and democratic society are indeed racists.

 

[roydo]

To paraphrase, I have to agree with Nik. Criticism or comment on a race/religion does not constitute racism.

 

[EFCNIK]

To paraphrase, I have to agree with Nik. Criticism or comment on a race/religion does not constitute racism.

When an ideology or religion or anything for that matter becomes above criticism it becomes even more dangerous than the criticiser would have you believe. But maybe I'm just not progressive enough.

 

[Clint Planet]

When an ideology or religion or anything for that matter becomes above criticism it becomes even more dangerous than the criticiser would have you believe. But maybe I'm just not progressive enough.

Islam is most certainly not above criticism - I don't remember anyone on here saying it was - but the distasteful way in which you demonise all muslims on here seems, if not racist, then certainly islamophobic. Loving your use of the word "tolerant" in your own posts, by the way.

This is the way of the world though, folks, especially in times of political uncertainty, fading social cohesion and economic inequality. Extremism puts its boots on and takes to the streets, sloganeering and talking in absolutes and certainties. Young British Muslims feel alienated and take extreme positions. Young white lads from Luton and Burnley do likewise.

Both sides feel abandoned and beleagured.

 

[EFCNIK]

Islam is most certainly not above criticism - I don't remember anyone on here saying it was - but the distasteful way in which you demonise all muslims on here seems, if not racist, then certainly islamophobic. Loving your use of the word "tolerant" in your own posts, by the way.

This is the way of the world though, folks, especially in times of political uncertainty, fading social cohesion and economic inequality. Extremism puts its boots on and takes to the streets, sloganeering and talking in absolutes and certainties. Young British Muslims feel alienated and take extreme positions. Young white lads from Luton and Burnley do likewise.

Both sides feel abandoned and beleagured.

I've not once done as you say at all but it's what you'd like to think. Islam is a different subject than your individual Muslim. I don't think I've ever alluded to the fact that I would treat an individual Muslim any different. Although I would point out that your 'they feel alienated' stance is pathetic and fascilates them being pushed to extremes. And I would also say that you don't really get non Muslims plotting terrorist attacks because they feel a bit alienated. Or not on that scale anyway. But whatever it's not really the thread for that again.

I was raising the parallels with Islam and immigration. If you criticise either your a racist. As many people would scream about Farage.

 

[Del]

Won't somebody think of the children

 

[roydo]

Islam is most certainly not above criticism - I don't remember anyone on here saying it was - but the distasteful way in which you demonise all muslims on here seems, if not racist, then certainly islamophobic. Loving your use of the word "tolerant" in your own posts, by the way.

This is the way of the world though, folks, especially in times of political uncertainty, fading social cohesion and economic inequality. Extremism puts its boots on and takes to the streets, sloganeering and talking in absolutes and certainties. Young British Muslims feel alienated and take extreme positions. Young white lads from Luton and Burnley do likewise.

Both sides feel abandoned and beleagured.

I dont want to appear as an acolyte for Nik, but he holds a consistent view based on his own experiences. I am happy to be proved wrong, but I cannot recall him demonising all muslims, like, ever. If anything, his position is that to not tolerate criticism, and demonise those who criticise , is actually a more unpleasant, and dangerous, trait.

Might be wrong, but pretty sure of my understanding here. @EFCNIK

 

[EFCNIK]

I dont want to appear as an acolyte for Nik, but he holds a consistent view based on his own experiences. I am happy to be proved wrong, but I cannot recall him demonising all muslims, like, ever. If anything, his position is that to not tolerate criticism, and demonise those who criticise , is actually a more unpleasant, and dangerous, trait.

Might be wrong, but pretty sure of my understanding here. @EFCNIK

*starts weeping*

Yes my boy, yes.

 

[Clint Planet]

Although I would point out that your 'they feel alienated' stance is pathetic and fascilates them being pushed to extremes. And I would also say that you don't really get non Muslims plotting terrorist attacks because they feel a bit alienated. Or not on that scale anyway. But whatever it's not really the thread for that again.

And there we have the problem: A refusal to acknowledge what everyone else can see.

*sigh*

 

[Clint Planet]

Won't somebody think of the children

Nik wants to send them back.

 

[bluemangroup]

I'm sure this thread was about something.

 

[EFCNIK]

So have we all agreed that Farage is a bad racist and will lead us into Poland valiantly?

 

[Tubey]

Well in tubes. Loving the racist tag in there as well. Critics of Islam and it's ability to co exist in a tolerant and democratic society are indeed racists.

Nope, but that's not what you do - you paint absolutely everything to do with Islam, and Eastern Europe - indeed, anything not white British that has a presence in Britain - with the same bigoted brush.

You don't critique Islam, you batter it. Critique implies you have knowledge of both sides of an issue. At least Farage has bothered to learn about the subject and come to a balanced opinion and can therefore talk in a balanced way that people don't laugh at - you and the likes of Tommy Robinson haven't; or, if you did bother, you chose to ignore any valid fact that is contrary to your bigotry and trumpet over the top terms like "the silent majority" and such.

That's why you're closer to Tommy Robinson than Nigel Farage in your views. You may not be a racist, but you certainly act like one at times because of your alarmist, unsupported claims that can only be based in ignorant bigotry rather than research.

 

[EFCNIK]

Nope, but that's not what you do - you paint absolutely everything to do with Islam, and Eastern Europe - indeed, anything not white British that has a presence in Britain - with the same bigoted brush.

You don't critique Islam, you batter it. Critique implies you have knowledge of both sides of an issue. At least Farage has bothered to learn about the subject and come to a balanced opinion and can therefore talk in a balanced way that people don't laugh at - you and the likes of Tommy Robinson haven't; or, if you did bother, you chose to ignore any valid fact that is contrary to your bigotry and trumpet over the top terms like "the silent majority" and such.

That's why you're closer to Tommy Robinson than Nigel Farage in your views. You may not be a racist, but you certainly act like one at times because of your alarmist, unsupported claims that can only be based in ignorant bigotry rather than research.

Ignorance and bigotry. Text book.

I just believe that a relatively new religion to the western world should adapt to our way of life not the other way around.

I'm so not progressive mate I soz.

 

[roydo]

ne

I'm sure this thread was about something.

It has drifted a bit. Groucho must be still reading his "appreciation" thread.

I think it has gone a bit like this.

1. EU debate. Yay or Nay
2. Free movement of labour a key EU issue for some.
3. Is unchecked immigration really a great idea
4. Is saying unchecked/badly controlled immigration of non EU citizens a good thing
5. Are you a badun for saying it is.

I think.