2020/21 Niels Nkounkou

[Lanolin]

I'm glad they used Small but developing Nkounkou or developing Small is the same level of beneficial. Nkounkou isn't an older player, he's 20.

But Nkounkou has played lots of junior football, and now some senior football. He's a lot further on his development, and would probably be pleased to think he'd left the under 23s behind. Small on the other hand has now been shown that there is a clear progression available for him, and other members of the under 18s have seen the same. Small playing is far more beneficial in the long run. As I said initially, Nkounkou might need the odd run out over the season just to keep a little bit of sharpness, but this week would have been really odd timing for it when we have so many first team games on the horizon.

 

[TheBigIguana]

But Nkounkou has played lots of junior football, and now some senior football. He's a lot further on his development, and would probably be pleased to think he'd left the under 23s behind. Small on the other hand has now been shown that there is a clear progression available for him, and other members of the under 18s have seen the same. Small playing is far more beneficial in the long run. As I said initially, Nkounkou might need the odd run out over the season just to keep a little bit of sharpness, but this week would have been really odd timing for it when we have so many first team games on the horizon.

I think you're right if he's actually in the first team picture but he seems to be so far away from it that I'm not sure there is a plausible scenario for him getting a game. And in that case he does need to be in the u23s some.

I think he was brought in as a u23 player. I don't think him getting games so early outside the League Cup was really the plan.

 

[MikeH72]

Carlo has started Delph and Godfrey, both not even a little bit LBs, at LB instead. We'd need a massive COVID outbreak to get Nkounkou anywhere near an appearance. And yes he has 5 starts but it'll stay at that number if he isn't dropped down.

As for the other stuff, that's football. We're trying to be the best club we can be and the u23s is a tool for that, not a separate club trying to win things as we sometimes treat it.

I honestly think he’d play Cenk Tosun at left back before he started Nkounkou.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I honestly think he’d play Cenk Tosun at left back before he started Nkounkou.

Yeah this is what I'm trying to get at lol.

 

[jazzy]

....oh dear.

I think he was tring to be ironic @Eggs ......at least I bloody well hope that he was.

 

[blueblue]

Nkounkou was not brought to Everton as player ready for first team football.
He was signed as an under 23 player who will train with the first team and that is what is happening.

 

[Goat]

Carlo has started Delph and Godfrey, both not even a little bit LBs, at LB instead. We'd need a massive COVID outbreak to get Nkounkou anywhere near an appearance. And yes he has 5 starts but it'll stay at that number if he isn't dropped down.

As for the other stuff, that's football. We're trying to be the best club we can be and the u23s is a tool for that, not a separate club trying to win things as we sometimes treat it.

Is that Fabian Delph who won the Premier League title at Left back?

 

[TheBigIguana]

Is that Fabian Delph who won the Premier League title at Left back?

I'm seriously asking because you freely admit you don't watch much right now: did you see the first 30 minutes of that Burnley game? The gnome out front covered more ground.

I don't blame Delph for that either but his legs are way too gone now to be playing LB.

 

[Goat]

I'm seriously asking because you freely admit you don't watch much right now: did you see the first 30 minutes of that Burnley game? The gnome out front covered more ground.

I don't blame Delph for that either but his legs are way too gone now to be playing LB.

Did you watch the Newcastle game?

The boy Niels was wearing a snorkel he was so far out his depth.

Delph isn't the answer, but to imply hes never played there is silly.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Did you watch the Newcastle game?

The boy Niels was wearing a snorkel he was so far out his depth.

Delph isn't the answer, but to imply hes never played there is silly.

I didn't say that, I said he isn't a LB and he isn't right now because he can't run anymore.

 

[Goat]

I didn't say that, I said he isn't a LB and he isn't right now because he can't run anymore.

I just think Carlo knows what hes doing and we should probably leave it to him.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I just think Carlo knows what hes doing and we should probably leave it to him.

Carlo's backline is an utter mess so far this season but ultimately he's probably better for fixing than us.

However that isn't even what we were discussing really. I was more saying that Niels needs to play some football even if it is u23s.

 

[Groucho]

I’d imagine Carlo would want to blood him in a settled back line, not one that’s makeshift with 4 CB’s.

 

[catcherintherye]

Well it is if you're the lad who's trained hard with the team all week and then doesn't get picked because someone gets parachuted down instead. And it is if you have any interest in developing your centre half and winger who want some sort of chemistry with the player next to/behind them. And it is if you get a knock playing in an under 23 game that 'doesn't matter' and so aren't available when your big chance comes in the PL a week later. Gordon is slightly different because it's longer term and is getting to the point where I agree he could do with playing some games, but Nkounkou has made 5 starts (including u23s) this season, he's hardly going to have forgotten how to play the game. Dropping him down would just be a pointless risk when we've got so many games coming up in the next couple of weeks.

I'm not trying to be dismissive, but I'm not always sure if peope get the phsycology of how having multiple teams within a club works.

I often use this example but our cricket club has 2 teams. I got promoted from 2nd to 1st last summer, and then you are in that squad. You don't tend to just stop back down if you don't make the first team for a week. It gets set in stone a lot more. The 1st team captain takes the view that if he rests me, he wants me me rested for his team, which takes precadence. The 2nd team fulfils a different function for the club (as a reserves team does too).

Unsworth gave some telling quotes the other day on Small, saying that Nkounkou is an example of moving froward, he was with Unsworth for 2 weeks and then the first team. Going back and regularly playing for the reserves isn't commensurate with that. He will be training with the 1st team squad and it's how he will be viewed. It is a but unusual, that those who will often criticise Unsworth for playing older players, will also criticise him for not taking down lads who've been promoted to the 1st team squad.

As a final aside, Nkounkou is very much 1st reserve currently. He may well be 1st reserve for the entire back 4 (I mean probably not, Kenny is, but maybe). It may be that if Mina or Keane get injured the plan is for Godfrey inside and Nkounkou on. There is a lot of games coming up, and Ancelotti will want him at his disposal, and importantly the lad himself will not want to be risking injury or fatigue by wasting time playing for the 23's.

Hard though it is, you just have to trust people a bit on this. We are not actually that bad at bringing through young players and actually quite well regarded for it. There are many criticisms of the club, and even youth development, and a criticism of why he hasn't played more 1st team minutes, but him not dropping down on Monday night head of a Wednesday-Saturday fixture schedule isn't one of them.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I'm not trying to be dismissive, but I'm not always sure if peope get the phsycology of how having multiple teams within a club works.

I often use this example but our cricket club has 2 teams. I got promoted from 2nd to 1st last summer, and then you are in that squad. You don't tend to just stop back down if you don't make the first team for a week. It gets set in stone a lot more. The 1st team captain takes the view that if he rests me, he wants me me rested for his team, which takes precadence. The 2nd team fulfils a different function for the club (as a reserves team does too).

Unsworth gave some telling quotes the other day on Small, saying that Nkounkou is an example of moving froward, he was with Unsworth for 2 weeks and then the first team. Going back and regularly playing for the reserves isn't commensurate with that. He will be training with the 1st team squad and it's how he will be viewed. It is a but unusual, that those who will often criticise Unsworth for playing older players, will also criticise him for not taking down lads who've been promoted to the 1st team squad.

As a final aside, Nkounkou is very much 1st reserve currently. He may well be 1st reserve for the entire back 4 (I mean probably not, Kenny is, but maybe). It may be that if Mina or Keane get injured the plan is for Godfrey inside and Nkounkou on. There is a lot of games coming up, and Ancelotti will want him at his disposal, and importantly the lad himself will not want to be risking injury or fatigue by wasting time playing for the 23's.

Hard though it is, you just have to trust people a bit on this. We are not actually that bad at bringing through young players and actually quite well regarded for it. There are many criticisms of the club, and even youth development, and a criticism of why he hasn't played more 1st team minutes, but him not dropping down on Monday night head of a Wednesday-Saturday fixture schedule isn't one of them.

I think he would shoehorn Davies, Iwobi or Doucoure into fullback before he put Nkounkou in to start again. He'd have Nkounkou on the bench if this wasn't the case.