No Hunger in Paradise

[Terrarian]

Fair enough, I just assumed you were taking umbrage at something other than the point being made because it's quite clear to me that my reply addresses the point. The OP says 'I feel players earn so much that the ones no (sic) who win stuff are the ones who have it between the ears to try and be the best' ie, players who try hard win, players who don't, don't. I'm not entirely sure what else he could mean by that sentence? And as I said, it clearly is what he meant, because he confirmed it after I replied. That's what my reply was addressing.

EDIT - Quitw why he's now liking all your posts saying I misunderstood when he's already confirmed himself that I didn't, is anyone's guess.

It's called dedication for instance Ronaldo isn't just the best in the world because he turns up, obviously there is a lot of natural talent there but he maximises that by eating properly, looking after his body, training, training, training putting the extra hours in training, not because he isn't as good as the others but because he wants to be the best.

That's the crux of it. It takes a certain mentality when you earn millions to still do that extra yard. I sometimes get the feeling a lot of players are happy winning nothing because they earn a champions wage, that is all.

 

[Tree13]

Fair enough, I just assumed you were taking umbrage at something other than the point being made because it's quite clear to me that my reply addresses the point. The OP says 'I feel players earn so much that the ones no (sic) who win stuff are the ones who have it between the ears to try and be the best' ie, players who try hard win, players who don't, don't. I'm not entirely sure what else he could mean by that sentence? And as I said, it clearly is what he meant, because he confirmed it after I replied. That's what my reply was addressing.

EDIT - Quite why he's now liking all your posts saying I misunderstood when he's already confirmed himself that I didn't, is anyone's guess.

Everyone secretly loves tories mate. It's just logical.

Perhaps I've misunderstood the OP's initial point then, I couldn't discern the link between your reply and what I thought I understood his point to be.

 

[blue1948]

It is beyond argument that the players today earn too much .

 

[Lanolin]

It's called dedication for instance Ronaldo isn't just the best in the world because he turns up, obviously there is a lot of natural talent there but he maximises that by eating properly, looking after his body, training, training, training putting the extra hours in training, not because he isn't as good as the others but because he wants to be the best.

That's the crux of it. It takes a certain mentality when you earn millions to still do that extra yard. I sometimes get the feeling a lot of players are happy winning nothing because they earn a champions wage, that is all.

And that's fine. I just disagree with you, it's not a big deal.

I think Ronaldo is supremely gifted technically and almost a freak genetically. I don't think it would matter how dedicated to football Conor Mcaleny was, he would never have been able to do what Cristiano Ronaldo did. Yes, the old adage of 'hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work hard' is (sometimes) true, but if talent does work hard, then talent wins. That's my point, that you can work really hard and have a great mentality and all those things but still not make it to the very top. The idea that some people at the top work extremely hard to get there I agree with, the idea that people who aren't at the top clearly didn't work as hard, I don't.

 

[Terrarian]

And that's fine. I just disagree with you, it's not a big deal.

I think Ronaldo is supremely gifted technically and almost a freak genetically. I don't think it would matter how dedicated to football Conor Mcaleny was, he would never have been able to do what Cristiano Ronaldo did. Yes, the old adage of 'hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work hard' is (sometimes) true, but if talent does work hard, then talent wins. That's my point, that you can work really hard and have a great mentality and all those things but still not make it to the very top. The idea that some people at the top work extremely hard to get there I agree with, the idea that people who aren't at the top clearly didn't work as hard, I don't.

Cool, we disagree. I think in all sports there has to be natural talent there to begin with but I think some people maximise their potential better than others do. Like a Royston Drenthe getting wasted all the time or a shandy Andy, gifted footballers who didn't make the most of it.

I digress though my, I guess I was meaning I wish there was something that could be done in the way of clauses for some of these players to actually earn their money. It won't happen I know it's wishful thinking but watching players give half arsed performances is becoming far too common these last years.

 

[Eggs]

....I often use the statement: ‘plays like the game matters’ & it is a descriptor that’s getting rarer.

Footballers like Beckham & Rooney who play with real hunger despite the wealth and medals. You probably see it more now in foreign players (South Americans) who might have been brought up in relative poverty and learned their skills playing footy in the street.

 

[collymcd]

Has anyone seen that documentary? It's a fairly old one now, the premise is young Premier League footballers earning so much money that they don't have hunger to win silverware.

This that was a problem with youth is just a problem, those young kids are now in their prime and they're millionaires and most of them don't even have a runners up medal never mind a winners medal.

I feel players earn so much that the ones no who win stuff are the ones who have it between the ears to try and be the best. That Fulham result hurt, i felt bad for the club, embarrassed for the club and it wasn't a game in isolation there have been a lot of them.

Players earn more than their trophy cabinets suggest they should. I follow Everton because I love Everton FC. Why should we continue to put money through gates/shops/memberships etc when we are seeing nothi9ng in return and i mean nothing. We have got to a stage where the same teams win every competition. When I started watching football, teams like Dundee Utd or Red Star Belgrade had a chance in Europe.

Football needs to change because 99% of fans don't get value for money.

Sorry rant over, check out the documentary if you haven't already and how do people feel about players commitment these days?

I absolutely agree with your general point. The accumulation and pursuit of wealth kills people's desire. What I'm gobsmacked by is the sentence you followed up with. "Football needs to change because 99% of fans don't get value for money."

What?

We deserve better because we pay for it? The idea that you get 'value' for money is exactly the problem that footballers, and society in general, has. As if money is the answer for things.

 

[Terrarian]

I absolutely agree with your general point. The accumulation and pursuit of wealth kills people's desire. What I'm gobsmacked by is the sentence you followed up with. "Football needs to change because 99% of fans don't get value for money."

What?

We deserve better because we pay for it? The idea that you get 'value' for money is exactly the problem that footballers, and society in general, has. As if money is the answer for things.

I mean from an entertainment and competing for trophies perspective. As a consumer am I not entitled to value for money?? and by value for money colour me simple but I will settle for some effort.

 

[Terrarian]

....I often use the statement: ‘plays like the game matters’ & it is a descriptor that’s getting rarer.

Footballers like Beckham & Rooney who play with real hunger despite the wealth and medals. You probably see it more now in foreign players (South Americans) who might have been brought up in relative poverty and learned their skills playing footy in the street.

That's it Eggs for a lot of them it doesn't matter or it seems that way. Success in football has become qualifying for the CL, the two domestic trophies are losing glamour, well FA Cup, League Cup hasn't been glamourous for a while.

I feel they earn so much that they don't care about pots, which is what we actually are desperate for and the Premier League is out of reach by a large distance to where we are currently, so frustrating.

 

[collymcd]

I mean from an entertainment and competing for trophies perspective. As a consumer am I not entitled to value for money?? and by value for money colour me simple but I will settle for some effort.

I think you're entitled to see a game, that's about it. I think the problem we collectively have as a society is that we have too much faith in what money entitles us to. It can only ever end in disappointment. The fantasy collapses on itself. It's deadening. This is the issue with mega rich footballers.

 

[Terrarian]

I think you're entitled to see a game, that's about it. I think the problem we collectively have as a society is that we have too much faith in what money entitles us to. It can only ever end in disappointment. The fantasy collapses on itself. It's deadening. This is the issue with mega rich footballers.

I understand that but there has to be a minimum effort at least, if you aren't as good as your opponents then at least graft. We are seeing far too many nothing performances where I genuinely don't think they earn their corn.

You can lose games but you should never leave a game or come away from a game feeling the players haven't given 100%, in that instance, I don't think you are getting value for money.

 

[collymcd]

I understand that but there has to be a minimum effort at least, if you aren't as good as your opponents then at least graft. We are seeing far too many nothing performances where I genuinely don't think they earn their corn.

You can lose games but you should never leave a game or come away from a game feeling the players haven't given 100%, in that instance, I don't think you are getting value for money.

Money is rubbish. We get value for money every time they half-heartedly stink the place out.

Value for our time? The jersey? Their place in football history? Their family's respect? I think that's what Louis Vutton obsessed bells should be worried about.

 

[Eggs]

That's it Eggs for a lot of them it doesn't matter or it seems that way. Success in football has become qualifying for the CL, the two domestic trophies are losing glamour, well FA Cup, League Cup hasn't been glamourous for a while.

I feel they earn so much that they don't care about pots, which is what we actually are desperate for and the Premier League is out of reach by a large distance to where we are currently, so frustrating.

...I know somebody who works at USM FF and he says the difference in this lot to the Jagielka/Osman days is vast. At one point the players were close to staff and integrated like most workplaces, but that’s significantly changed in the last few years. Most of these players keep themselves in a different world.

 

[Terrarian]

...I know somebody who works at USM FF and he says the difference in this lot to the Jagielka/Osman days is vast. At one point the players were close to staff and integrated like most workplaces, but that’s significantly changed in the last few years. Most of these players keep themselves in a different world.

That's sad to hear that, getting further and further away from the working classes this sport.

 

[blue1948]

When I left school the top builder could earn 100 quid a week and the top footballers got about 300 quid which made them "loaded "but now it is stupid for us all but of course not for them .I suspect part of the problem is that there is no loyalty left in today's game ,I think agents are the main culprits ,they move the players on and their god is money ,they don't care who they play for now to a great extent .This might well be shown to it's greatest extent if Lukaku signs for City .