Obama or McCain?

[TX Bill]

Bruce you bring up valid points.

It's fair to say that there are some people who've identified themselves as "Christian" yet continually do and say things that wouldn't be considered Christian. As a Christian, God commands us to share our faith in Jesus Christ. He's very clear about that in the Bible.

But it doesn't do anyone any good to try and force our beliefs upon others. They need to come to that relationship with Christ on their own and not by someone force feeding it to them. All I can do as a Christian is introduce others to Jesus. God does the rest.

But we as Christians certainly should not be trying to shove our beliefs down someone's throat in order that they might believe as we do.

About the only analogy about radical Chrisitans I can give you is people calling ALL Muslims terrorists.

We know very well that the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and law abiding people and it's a select few that are giving their religion a bad name.

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

[Poor language removed] me what a quote! is that yours Reidy? I'm gonna use that.

"the u.s. are not the defenders of the free world...they are the defenders of the subscribing world."

a peach of a quote.

i do copyright these, they are available for a fee just hit the reputation, if i cant have a slogan i want loads of green thingy's.

all i want to know is why israel is never pulled into line, no matter what they do.
i reckon that sharon was taken away as he was a liability, his 'illness' is never reported now,
i have my theory that this is an example of the u.s. or u.n. calling them to heal as this guy really could have started wwIII just by being in power, didnt he lead a slaughter in a refugee camp providing support which earned him the title 'butcher of beirut' for which he would never be forgiven by arabs.
Britain also has a debt to the palestinian people for abandoning them, they were members of our commonwealth and were dropped like last nights curry basically, and left to work it all out for themselves.

 

[TX Bill]

i do copyright these, they are available for a fee just hit the reputation, if i cant have a slogan i want loads of green thingy's.

all i want to know is why israel is never pulled into line, no matter what they do.
i reckon that sharon was taken away as he was a liability, his 'illness' is never reported now,
i have my theory that this is an example of the u.s. or u.n. calling them to heal as this guy really could have started wwIII just by being in power, didnt he lead a slaughter in a refugee camp providing support which earned him the title 'butcher of beirut' for which he would never be forgiven by arabs.
Britain also has a debt to the palestinian people for abandoning them, they were members of our commonwealth and were dropped like last nights curry basically, and left to work it all out for themselves.

Yeah Reidy...

Cause Israel is constantly calling for the destruction of (Insert Country Name here ________________) that they need to be pulled into line.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Iran, now there's another complicated situation. I must say that I had never really delved into the history of Iran/Persia befere and always regarded Ahmadinajad (sp) as a bit of a nutter.

However looking back over things it does seem that Britain in particular has meddled quite extensively in the country's past, both politically and economically, with the likes of America also playing a part in regime change etc. in the country. Now clearly that doesn't make threats such as that valid but it does perhaps provide an explanation for why the nation dislikes Britain and America so much.

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

tx, does israel not operate unlawfully outside it's borders on a regular basis, does it not put cities in another country under curfew and lockdown.
i just dont get it, why are they allowed to do this, but then the u.s. and i'm ashamed to say the u.k. are doing this as well at the moment but our part is more that our gov. is for some reason wanting to rim the u.s. who wouldn't do anything about it when we were under attack from terrorists.
as i said when i gave an example with the names changed to create a situation in the u.k. and then the jerico example was posted with names changed. this is what confuses me as from the evidence i see, israel is very often the aggressor and it seems that with some of its action like the building of new settlements they are just provoking the situation further.
i try to begin by looking at things from a neutral viewpoint but then from what you see you go one way or the other.

politics and religion....as they say, best left alone.
i still dont get it though.

 

[chicoazul]

Go back and watch it again mate.

And this time, pay attention not to the audience, but to the answers that each candidate gave.

Seriously mate, I thought he give better answers than McCain. He had to explain his answers more than the beautifully staged McCain abortion rights one. That was always going to bring the house down wasnt it.

McCain has served this country so well, a very brave guy indeed but he's losing his Maverick edge that he had a couple of years ago and aligning himself more and more with the traditional policies and outlooks of Mr Bush.

 

[TX Bill]

Well the Obama camp was out spinning like crazy the morning after so I guess they felt he didn't do too good.

Just so you know, I'm not a big fan of McCain either. He was about fourth or fifth on my list of choices on the Republican side.

(Not necessarily in this order but I preferred Thompson, Romney, Huckabee, and Giuliani to McCain.)

 

[chicoazul]

I think Romney will be on the ticket too mate.

I agree with the spin machine on full blast in camp Obama at the moment. That puts me off a bit too. I must admit I liked Huckabee the most though.

 

[TX Bill]

That's the rumour anyway.

Obama invited Biden to be his running mate. We'll see how that turns out.

 

[chicoazul]

I know, like a sad tit I sat up and watched it unbreaking on Larry King.

Im bound to be raising suspicion through my obession for American politics at some point.

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

i thought huckerbee had gone over there to play footy, didnt know he'd gone into politics.

 

[TX Bill]

i thought huckerbee had gone over there to play footy, didnt know he'd gone into politics.

I actually watched some of the San Jose match last night and they had Huckerby out on the left wing.

He did ok in the time I watched him play. Good acquisition for them.

 

[sotnas]

I don't want to get into generalisations about a mass populous as that would be daft. Bill has identified himself as a Christian here and thus far I've found him to be super chap and I can't really find any bad thoughts about him.

However as I've said elsewhere there are some Christians that do scare the crap out of me. James Kopp for instance (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2816973.stm for those not familiar). There are some radical evangelists (they seem mostly to be evangelists) that hold incredibly strong views on subjects such as abortion and homosexuality and will go to violent means to voice those views. Sadly incidents like those above aren't uncommon as this Wiki entry highlights - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion-related_violence#Incidents_in_the_United_States. For the record I am pro-choice on the matter of abortion, but even if I was not the matter remains one of law in America (and elsewhere) and these people taking vigilante action on it sits very uneasily with me.

Likewise there has been similar aggresive rhetoric aimed at homosexuals. Not sure Ted Haggard will still preach that particular line but he and others have damned homosexuals in the past and given the Bible's aggressive views on gay people there have no doubt been many sermens hoping they burn in hell and so forth.

It's this that gives me the willies. I don't really care what people get up to in their private life. If they're not breaking the law and not hurting me, what business is it of mine? Yet some Christians feel the need to dictate how others live their life. We're fortunate in Britain that we're relatively secular but it really scares me that the US political world is becoming so attached to religious lobby groups that things like Intelligent Design will gain legal traction. Especially sad considering the clear division of church and state as laid out in the constitution.

The Bible's aggressive views in gay?!?

Aborption?

Well, I think you are criticising the official position of the institution. It doesn't reflect necessarly the views of the common population.

Sadly the world's self proclamed defender of the free world and of the freedom of thought is clearly a country where people in general are easily manipulated by the lobbies. You can actually find people supporting the views of radicals, whether they're christian or not.

I wouldn't say christian tell people how to live, I'd say that religious radical leaders in general do that.

Radicalism is in everything. Just go back and see how the islam used Cassius Clay. I can't stop laughing at some serious [Poor language removed] the guy said. Mainly that white man enslaving the black man as being the reason for his change of religion and name. I don't think the Bible says anything about supporting slavery. Actually, it was the muslims and black man tribes in Africa who created the concept. The white man took advantage of it, which is equally evil. So the argument is just silly, really.

Radicals don't often sound anything with sense. However, they speak to people who for a number of different reasons live in despair and seek some confort in those self proclamed commonwealth leaders.

You do have a some valid points, but you just point out some of the most obvious radicalism and some deviations when it comes to interpret the Bible.

I don't condemn homossexuality but I don't support either. But let's face it, men are not design to take it up the arse. If some do, it's their choice, but don't expect people to go merry about it. I don't have problems about gay marriages or whatever word you want to use, but I have some issues about adoption.

I'm not in favour of pro-choice when it comes to aborption, mainly because life is just to precious to let two irresponsible kids to toy around. But I understand the argument of lack of conditions to raise up a child under certain difficult conditions. However, accepting aborption as it is, we're opening the door to irresponsible behaviour when it comes to sex. And besides pregnancy we still have the problem of sexual transmited diseases, which won't go away with aborption. Instead of aborption I'm all in favour of sexual education and free birth control methods for youngsters who initiate their sex lives.

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

issues against adoption ?
confused me there as i didnt realise any religions frowned upon it, i'm not havin' a go, i'm not of any religion but i see that a vast number of people get some sort of comfort in their lives from it, and as you say it's the extremists that use it as a weapon. i dont get the adoption thing though as the people i know who adopt have pretty much all done it because they cant have kids and the child they have adopted and taken care of is usually one who's parents either
dont want it
cant take care of it
have died
so if not adopted they would be in care, i dont see whats wrong with it in those cases, maybe its the selection/ matching up system you dont like ? i see more of a problem with a lot that are fostered by people who see it as a way of making an income, quite happy to foster a child for 18 years and get paid, yet if asked to adopt then they aren't interested as the well will dry up , so to speak. i dont think these people are doing it for the right reasons, there are a lot who do a fantastic 'job' (couldnt think of another word) in the fostering system, as sometimes it's a short term thing to help overcome family difficulties or illness.
i do know someone who was fostered when his mother was ill and there were no relatives who could care for him, he was with the family for about 6 months and they are now great friends of himself and his mother, he feels as if they are an aunt and uncle and they also gave help to his mother after she left hospital.
*edited
just read it again and realise it's gay adoption thats the issue, sorry misread it and thought it was just adoption.

 

[Nebbiolo]

At the risk of the wrath of the left:

If I only had 143 days of experience, would you hire me to fix your car?

The idea that experience is necessary doesn't hold water in my eyes. The Democrats have the experience required and Obama can rely on the party to help him in areas where he is currently less than able. It's like the UK cabinet or PM debate as the real power. You can have either of these systems operating well.