TheFinnFan
Finners
capitalism has its faults too. signs are clear.
proper mix of capitalism and socialism is the way to go, thinx me.
proper mix of capitalism and socialism is the way to go, thinx me.
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panorama - poor america
- Thread starter neil999
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KevO
Player Valuation: £750k
+1
As for the world police issue, I'm all for us getting out of it, it's a spawn of another era. Before WW2 we were like that, we had ONE Division in our army (in comparison Nazi Germany had over 100 divisions). We had a huge Navy but that was really all that was required to protect the US and our trade. WW2 and the Cold War kind of forced the US's hand in being that guy. But the world has changed, I think we need to especially get out of the middle east, Israel can take care of itself and Europe, Japan and China can protect it's own economic interests there, the US certainly doesn't need to be there.
pfim
Player Valuation: £40m
Won't get a disagreement on health care from me. I can't imagine not having health insurance in this system. And even though I have it, it's also a terrible burden. It makes you take or stay in jobs you don't want, etc. I don't mean to complain because, again, I'm in a much better situation than some, but it's broken and needs to be fixed.
The world police comments in here seem rather ironic, however.
The world police comments in here seem rather ironic, however.
" It is hard to ignore that in 2006, the United States was number 1 in terms of health care spending per capita but
ranked 39th for infant mortality, 43rd for adult female mortality, 42nd for adult male mortality, and 36th for life expectancy." published in New England Journal of Medicine in 2010.
The US spends between 15-20% of our GDP (more than any other country) on healthcare and yet still rank below almost all (if not all) other developed countries.
We can do amazing things with imaging, robotic surgeries and treat/cure rare, obscure diseases (advanced healthcare) and yet over 4000 people will die of asthma this year alone (poor preventative healthcare).
It's a crazy system. Example: may insurance providers do not cover things like smoking cessation medications. (Before someone jumps in ... I know it's their decision to smoke,accept the consequences etc, etc. )
From the insurers point of view, that coverage is not cost effective. They won't pay for the ultimate outcomes: cancer, COPD, heart disease where the serious heathcare dollars are spent. By the time those develop there' s a good chance the patient is on Medicare or at least moved on to another job.
In a single system, prevention of disease and management of chronic disease becomes cost effective and coincidentally provides better healthcare.
*climbs down from soapbox
ranked 39th for infant mortality, 43rd for adult female mortality, 42nd for adult male mortality, and 36th for life expectancy." published in New England Journal of Medicine in 2010.
The US spends between 15-20% of our GDP (more than any other country) on healthcare and yet still rank below almost all (if not all) other developed countries.
We can do amazing things with imaging, robotic surgeries and treat/cure rare, obscure diseases (advanced healthcare) and yet over 4000 people will die of asthma this year alone (poor preventative healthcare).
It's a crazy system. Example: may insurance providers do not cover things like smoking cessation medications. (Before someone jumps in ... I know it's their decision to smoke,accept the consequences etc, etc. )
From the insurers point of view, that coverage is not cost effective. They won't pay for the ultimate outcomes: cancer, COPD, heart disease where the serious heathcare dollars are spent. By the time those develop there' s a good chance the patient is on Medicare or at least moved on to another job.
In a single system, prevention of disease and management of chronic disease becomes cost effective and coincidentally provides better healthcare.
*climbs down from soapbox
B
BigBlueBalls
Guest
In the UK that sort of thing has been known as the 'postcode lottery' fr a lot of years.
TX Bill
Player Valuation: £80m
Take a good guess at what the least tolerated group in the USA is...
Come on Reidy, you can do it.
God help the United States if that's ever to happen.
Socialism is a complete and utter failure. The problems happening in Europe are a clear testament to that yet people only want to see what they want to see.
What I find ironic is that all of the "bleeding heart liberal" types in Hollywood said they'd move out of the country if Bush was re-elected. He was but guess what, those same Hollywood types decided the USA wasn't such a bad place after all with the evil conservatives in power. I wonder why.
America ain't perfect...far from it. But compared to the alternatives ???
One guy said it best.
"Open up the borders of the world so that anyone could go live anywhere and the line to get into the USA would look like the opening night of The Producers on Broadway while much of the rest of the world would look like a ghost town."
But yeah, America sucks.
To be rich people there needs to be poor people. The once traditional poor countries are becoming richer and we aren't now seeing rich countries and poor countries but rich and poor in the same country. The poor will be with us forever, having said that my heart breaks for those kids, especially that little girl who said her mum eats rats.
Nordecke
Player Valuation: £35m
Give an inch and they take a mile..
Fact is, you start giving **** away for "free" (Which it isn't free) and the low life's come to expect hand outs.
The majority of middle class Americans, hard working people, pay for these "free" benefits.. It's only free for the people who don't earn their money..
Fact is, you start giving **** away for "free" (Which it isn't free) and the low life's come to expect hand outs.
The majority of middle class Americans, hard working people, pay for these "free" benefits.. It's only free for the people who don't earn their money..
There is a marked shortage of primary care physicians in the States as it is. Any sort of socialization of the system where anyone with a hangnail starts showing up at the emergency room - then you're going to overburden the system. If it went single-payer system tomorrow, I think a lot of hospitals and primary care facilities would go out of business or be unable to keep up with demand AND maintain a level of quality and consistency.
Also, to steal a quote from a source I fail to remember:
" The real objection to the health-care mandate is that it puts Congress deeper in the business of regulating health care when it really should have, under our original constitutional design, only a marginal role."
That's the issue for a lot of people - should government be in more control of how they manage the lives of the individual or should government do as little as necessary to ensure the individual has the ability to manage their own lives.
Here in the States - there are conservatives like myself that want government to butt the hell out of our lives... and then there are others who want government to lord over every aspect of society.
... but you know, the healthcare system does need attention. Maybe if government allowed more competition between international pharmaceuticals it could drive costs down - as it is, the FDA is pretty strict on foreign drug manufacturers doing business here in the US.
Places like Florida and Arizona have billions of dollars in losses due to illegal immigrants - costs that include everything from medical care, K-12 education, criminal incarceration. When illegal immigrants/the poor/transients seek care in hospitals, hospitals can't refuse care due to the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act. However, hospitals do pass those costs on to patients that can pay and that's why some services are ridiculously expensive. Hospitals have to find a way to cover costs.... that's part of business.
Maybe if the Federal government did a better job of keeping people employed, ensuring immigrants are paying into the system and attacking fraud and allowing international pharmaceuticals to compete ... then we might see healthcare costs become more affordable.
Single payer would save money and time. Multiple payers makes billing complex and makes things harder/more time consuming for physicians. You have to do things a specific way for each and every payer if you want to be reimbursed.
There's a shortage of primary care providers in the US in part because insurance companies reimburse primary care less than specialists. Family physicians/pediatricians have the lowest salaries. One extra year of residency to become a dermatologist would net you at least $100K more per year. Even more if that extra year is in radiology.
Unless things have changed recently physicians in the UK make about the same salary regardless of their area of practice.
Disincentivize specialty practice and you'll have more PCP's.
Have you been to an ER lately? It is already full (insured and uninsured) because the physicians office requires payment before being seen and the ER does not. So instead of $200 in costs, it's $1300.
Almost everything about the US system is inefficient and ass-backwards.
I am not saying UK or any other system is the perfect one, but what we have now in the US is not really good for anyone.
EFCNIK
Banned
Bingo.
Blue 1
Player Valuation: £70m
Abu Qatada isn't roaming the streets. He's under 22 hour house arrest and is on a tag the two hours he's allowed out of the house, isn't allowed a phone or a computer, is being watched by the security services like a hawk and we're currently negotiating his deportation with Jordan. (The country, not deporting him with Katie Price, which is a shame).
He's been detained for years without being charged or tried, and while the guy is undoubtedly a cnut, we have laws in this country that mean you can't detain someone indefintely without trial, and we don't deport people to face torture. Which sounds fair enough to me.
He's been detained for years without being charged or tried, and while the guy is undoubtedly a cnut, we have laws in this country that mean you can't detain someone indefintely without trial, and we don't deport people to face torture. Which sounds fair enough to me.
D
Deleted member 28206
Guest
Spot on mate, the raving loonies on here will have you believe otherwise. This is what separate the UK from the rest of the world.
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