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Postal Strike

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And as for the rigs, WHY THE [Poor language removed] DID WE HAVE TO USE GREEN GODDESS'S,

answer : because the people ( brigade hierarchy) decided that their equipment was part of the strike also. smell the roses.
 
so you are grouping the fire personel on the ground that actually use the rigs with the individuals (the officers) at the top of the heirarchy?

do you see how grouping the lowest (basic fire personel £17k approx) with the top end decision makers (upwards of £50k) could be perceived as somewhat inappropriate?

Health and safety says that fire fighters have to have appropriate training for specific equipment - tell me, were you trained to use the modern rigs? were the green goddesses used to assist in RTA's?

As green goddess personel, how many individuals did YOU PERSONALLY hydrolically cut from a motorway crash?
 
they will not let the Army use the modern equipment

like the people that actually do the job have any say over who use the rigs and where they are used.

i can see now that the army personel during peace times cant be arsed being forced into active duty because a bunch of fire personel fancy better wages.

I wonder how many of the active military on duty in iraq would swap right this second for a slot on a green goddess here in britain.
 

so you are grouping the fire personel on the ground that actually use the rigs with the individuals (the officers) at the top of the heirarchy?

do you see how grouping the lowest (basic fire personel £17k approx) with the top end decision makers (upwards of £50k) could be perceived as somewhat inappropriate?

Health and safety says that fire fighters have to have appropriate training for specific equipment - tell me, were you trained to use the modern rigs? were the green goddesses used to assist in RTA's?

As green goddess personel, how many individuals did YOU PERSONALLY hydrolically cut from a motorway crash?

I am grouping the lads on the ground with the hierarchy about as much as you are grouping soldiers with the assholes that actually choose the wars.

I never once said that the lads on the ground picked their strikes, they were just pawns as the postmen are compared to their superiors, and neither one of each service could realistically abstain from the strikes.

And no, not me personally, but unfortunately there were occasions were crews in goddess's had to undertake those very unfortunate tasks(The rigs did not carry their own on board facility, but compressors and equipments had to be carried with all crews for these eventualities). That does not mean I would have had a choice should the need have arose. That is my big arsey concern about the whole charade. I think you completely mistook what I was saying. I oppose to ANY strike that could put peoples lives in jeapordy, and that is the realism of it all. Strikes do increase the dangers to people when they happen in the fire services case. I also understand that the only route they can choose to go down is strike route, that does not mean I have to like it.

So no, I was not talking out of my arse, and I never said I don't feel for the lads on the ground. But at what cost does it have to occur for the right decision to be made?
 
like the people that actually do the job have any say over who use the rigs and where they are used.

i can see now that the army personel during peace times cant be arsed being forced into active duty because a bunch of fire personel fancy better wages.

I wonder how many of the active military on duty in iraq would swap right this second for a slot on a green goddess here in britain.

Near enough all of them bud, but some would stay. Just a shame that the world and its so called decision makers create these situations in the first place.
 
sorry bruce, usually respect your views, but this time feel you are way out of touch.
you sound like maggie in the 80's. and imho she ripped the bowels out of the north of the country.
unions were overboard in the 70' and took the piss, but since then bosses took it too far the other way and they took the piss, i just think it needs to even up at little with a (small) swing to the workers
i believe that a happy workforce is more productive.

I'm afraid Thatcher was right though. That isn't to say that she was popular, of course she wasn't but she had the foresight to see that many of our industries simply weren't good enough to survive in an open market. The days of Britain building the world are long gone, China has that mantle now. Our strength is financial and the City leads the world.

I agree that a happy workforce is more productive and I suspect that the vast majority of corporations will agree with this also. If you look at someone like Toyota they go to great lengths to develop their employees, and they lead the world in car manufacturing. GE are the same and they lead the world in most of what they do. The notion that all companies are out to exploit their workers is very outdated.

Yes, it's true that the forces of globalisation have helped to make owners more money due to cheaper labour overseas but don't forget that it has also kept our economy growing over the past decade because much as Gordon Brown is loathe to admit it, it's been the growth in China and India that has led to global economic growth rather than his own tax and spend policies.

With regards to Blairs points:

Firstly, the "oh, it's always the Public Sector workers that cause a fuss"... mainly, iit's because they have a tendency to get shat upon from the greatest of heights because those that employ them know that a vast majority are motivated more by a sense of duty than money (why else would a Nurse work in the NHS rather than BUPA, where people very rarely spit at or punch you, or if they do, it's a far better class of spit).

I don't buy this 'sense of duty' thing one bit. People by and large look out for themselves first and foremost and go into a career for their own ends, be they financial or otherwise. Providing no one forced them into their chosen career then they can expect no sympathy from me if their chosen career doesn't meet those ends. This of course ignores the latest research that shows graduates starting out in public sector jobs earn on average £21,000p/a compared to £20,000 in the private sector. Not really being [Poor language removed] on either way is it, and perhaps if they were it might be because they work for a monopoly?

The other facet of this is the "Well, why did you sign up then?". Maybe, just [Poor language removed] maybe, they signed up to do a job that they felt made a [Poor language removed] defference.... their reward for this shouldn't be having to smile while they get crapped on, they should have a means of making their point.

Again, I simply don't buy this nobler than thou attitude, as though people working in the private sector are money grabbing low lives who couldn't give a monkeys about anything but their pay cheque. It's an incredibly simplified view of society and one that certainly isn't born out by evidence. This socialist idea that making money is a dirty thing is terribly out dated. If you get down to the basics of a transaction it is essentially each consumer voting for a product or service by handing over their money in return for it. I get to cast my 'vote' every week when I buy my groceries etc. unlike every four years for a government that then steals my money and dictates how it will be spent. I can just imagine the uproar if we were all forced to hand over money to Tesco, regardless of whether we shopped there or not. Good job the government are all in it to make a difference though hey, not like they'd be scoundrels and sell peerages or bribe Saudi princes :unsure:
 
I am grouping the lads on the ground with the hierarchy about as much as you are grouping soldiers with the assholes that actually choose the wars.

It was this labour government coupled with support from the two faced tories that took the country into war in iraq (at the prompting of the US)

It is the current government that has enforced massive cuts in the fire service, the FBU chose to support a strike because of the dangers these cuts posed to the public.

Again i ask, have you been trained to cut people out of car wrecks? do you realise that the firebrigade have the authority(in certain cases) on every road in britain?

More people die on roads in britain than die in any other kind of ACCIDENT per year.

your points have been very badly made, and for all your claims of fact, in my opinion, it has done you case no favours.
 
It was this labour government coupled with support from the two faced tories that took the country into war in iraq (at the prompting of the US)

It is the current government that has enforced massive cuts in the fire service, the FBU chose to support a strike because of the dangers these cuts posed to the public.

Again i ask, have you been trained to cut people out of car wrecks? do you realise that the firebrigade have the authority(in certain cases) on every road in britain?

More people die on roads in britain than die in any other kind of ACCIDENT per year.

your points have been very badly made, and for all your claims of fact, in my opinion, it has done you case no favours.

It is unfortunate that your badly educated opinions seem to find the need to over-ride experience, and whether you like it or not I am not going to rise to your baiting about my own or my past colleagues experiences. I respect the work that the fire service do, which is no where near as extensive as what our armed forces are trained to deal with. I would fully recommend you take your narrow minded blinkers off as your bitter points(few as they are) are only leading to embarrass yourself.

But to answer your question AGAIN. If you read in one of my past posts you will have noticed I stated that other army crews had the unfortunate task of cutting people from wreckages. YES all forces personnel received training to do these tasks with lesser equipment's, equipment's that are so obsolete that our present fire service would have refused to use them(shame, they had better equipment but through cut backs chose to strike and not use them, FORCING the army to endanger themselves by covering for them with equipment that was unstable). I understand that you don't know any better but read more into the replies before you throw accusations of points made badly. Your attitude will sicken the people that have had to do these jobs, maybe you should try instead of throwing opinions. Then you may become a little more knowledgeable in these matters.

Suits, I am not going to fall out with you over this, so I recommend we agree to disagree as the stalemate is in effect.
 

dont like out dated equipment?

then why has the brigade had numerous upgrades over the years as technology has advanced?

where has the slightly older technology gone?

sold to other countries is where, perhaps they should have got the goddesses instead of relativley modern rigs.

see the penny pinching? see the problem? see the arrogant manner in which the decision makers treat the individuals that actually do the job.

its the same thing as soldiers in iraq not being fully epuiped with body armour and whatever else.

when the bean counters are in control, the service suffers. it doesnt matter which service it is, 99.9% of the time it costs lives.
 
dont like out dated equipment?

then why has the brigade had numerous upgrades over the years as technology has advanced?

where has the slightly older technology gone?

sold to other countries is where, perhaps they should have got the goddesses instead of relativley modern rigs.

see the penny pinching? see the problem? see the arrogant manner in which the decision makers treat the individuals that actually do the job.

its the same thing as soldiers in iraq not being fully epuiped with body armour and whatever else.

when the bean counters are in control, the service suffers. it doesnt matter which service it is, 99.9% of the time it costs lives.

Nope, [Poor language removed] hate it, but we had to make do as it is all we were given. I am not blaming the lads on the ground, but unlike them, we had no choice.
 
we are off on a tangent anyway, the initial point was the postal service, the thread like most, has since split off into other facets with examples of unions, strikes and associated problems.

(in every case the underlying issue is mismanagement)
 
we are off on a tangent anyway, the initial point was the postal service, the thread like most, has since split off into other facets with examples of unions, strikes and associated problems.

(in every case the underlying issue is mismanagement)

Is the postal service on strike?? why the [Poor language removed] didn't someone say something??
 

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