POTUS 2016

[rbm]

You can't stump the Trump.....he'll win. Hillary is cooked

 

[tsubaki]

There is a truth hidden in her article in that the right wing will be the ones seeing much more open borders when it's clear business demands it. Those who want this for humanitarian reasons will be more and more isolated in their views by cynics like this author.

I am not sure how true that is, to be honest - if anything, politics of what purports to be left and right (as represented by Rubio / Cruz / Clinton in the US, or Cameron / Blair in the UK) were and are doing what "business" demands anyway, and largely all represent the same, fundamentally bad (for everyone who isn't them), option.

What Trump represents is something new and (for the moment) outside politics, a phenomenon which Peter Oborne predicted at the end of his book "The Rise of the Political Class" (albeit he was talking about Britain) when he suggested that the inevitable outcome of having such a political elite (with its own language, code of behaviour, social mores etc and widely disconnected from everyday folk) would be the rise of just such a figure, able to communicate simply and plainly with voters.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

What Trump represents is something new and (for the moment) outside politics, a phenomenon which Peter Oborne predicted at the end of his book "The Rise of the Political Class" (albeit he was talking about Britain) when he suggested that the inevitable outcome of having such a political elite (with its own language, code of behaviour, social mores etc and widely disconnected from everyday folk) would be the rise of just such a figure, able to communicate simply and plainly with voters.

Like Hitler.

Trump is a bit more though, with Trump they are not only turning their back on the political elite but any aptitude at doing the job, nothing about his background provides any hint of competency or clarity of long term vision.The guy is great at gaining backers/money but screws it up every time due to terrible decision making and everyone turning against him. The really terrifying thing is that a lot of Americans don't see Trump as a protest vote, but a legit Presidential hopeful.

Chomsky has been saying in the last while it's just the the way the Republican party works. Every Election the Party put forward the political candidates it feels will do the best job, and every time there is a nut job outsider who is massively popular with the actual voters that they have to defeat. Every Election up to now the Party has managed with horrendous amounts of money and media influence to somehow get their candidate selected over the nutjob. This time they are struggling though and could actually fail.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Like Hitler.

Trump is a bit more though, with Trump they are not only turning their back on the political elite but any aptitude at doing the job, nothing about his background provides any hint of competency or clarity of long term vision.The guy is great at gaining backers/money but screws it up every time due to terrible decision making and everyone turning against him. The really terrifying thing is that a lot of Americans don't see Trump as a protest vote, but a legit Presidential hopeful.

Chomsky has been saying in the last while it's just the the way the Republican party works. Every Election the Party put forward the political candidates it feels will do the best job, and every time there is a nut job outsider who is massively popular with the actual voters that they have to defeat. Every Election up to now the Party has managed with horrendous amounts of money and media influence to somehow get their candidate selected over the nutjob. This time they are struggling though and could actually fail.

That assumes that there's a sensible candidate among them. I'm not sure there is. I just hope that Bloomberg decides to run.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

That assumes that there's a sensible candidate among them. I'm not sure there is. I just hope that Bloomberg decides to run.

I think that's been the problem. The Republican party hasn't been able to find anyone that inspires any competence this time. Even a lot of the sensible voters aren't swallowing any of the 'establishment' candidates, just means the grassroots populist nutter has no competition.

I suppose you could argue that it's pretty much the same as what happened in the Labour party last time. The Grass-roots actually managed to impose their candidate on the Parliamentary Party. Corbyn wasn't even supposed to be running, they only included him at the last minute to make it look as if they were being inclusive and pretending to listen to the Party members. The Parliamentary Party didn't think for a minute that giving the Grass-roots a candidate it might actually like would backfire on them.

 

[carlos21]

I think that's been the problem. The Republican party hasn't been able to find anyone that inspires any competence this time. Even a lot of the sensible voters aren't swallowing any of the 'establishment' candidates, just means the grassroots populist nutter has no competition.

I suppose you could argue that it's pretty much the same as what happened in the Labour party last time. The Grass-roots actually managed to impose their candidate on the Parliamentary Party. Corbyn wasn't even supposed to be running, they only included him at the last minute to make it look as if they were being inclusive and pretending to listen to the Party members. The Parliamentary Party didn't think for a minute that giving the Grass-roots a candidate it might actually like would backfire on them.

Morning mate how are you today

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

Morning mate how are you today

Not too bad mate, busy slacking at work.

You all good today?

 

[carlos21]

Not too bad mate, busy slacking at work.

You all good today?

I am okay today mate.

 

[dandydan]

I think that's been the problem. The Republican party hasn't been able to find anyone that inspires any competence this time. Even a lot of the sensible voters aren't swallowing any of the 'establishment' candidates, just means the grassroots populist nutter has no competition.

I suppose you could argue that it's pretty much the same as what happened in the Labour party last time. The Grass-roots actually managed to impose their candidate on the Parliamentary Party. Corbyn wasn't even supposed to be running, they only included him at the last minute to make it look as if they were being inclusive and pretending to listen to the Party members. The Parliamentary Party didn't think for a minute that giving the Grass-roots a candidate it might actually like would backfire on them.

Grass roots as in Labour Party members or Northern working class?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I think that's been the problem. The Republican party hasn't been able to find anyone that inspires any competence this time. Even a lot of the sensible voters aren't swallowing any of the 'establishment' candidates, just means the grassroots populist nutter has no competition.

I suppose you could argue that it's pretty much the same as what happened in the Labour party last time. The Grass-roots actually managed to impose their candidate on the Parliamentary Party. Corbyn wasn't even supposed to be running, they only included him at the last minute to make it look as if they were being inclusive and pretending to listen to the Party members. The Parliamentary Party didn't think for a minute that giving the Grass-roots a candidate it might actually like would backfire on them.

I suppose that's always the risk. If you're sufficiently bothered to join a political party then it might stand to reason that you're slightly more towards the extreme end of things than the general public who may lean that way but don't feel as strongly about it.

As you know, I'm far from a Labour supporter, but they handled their leadership election better than this Republican car-crash. Damned with faint praise I know, but the Republicans are looking really bad thus far, and a long way from the great men that have represented them in the past.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

Grass roots as in Labour Party members or Northern working class?

Actual Labour Party members (voters and campaigners) who can vote in the leadership elections, fed up with pretty boy leaders of little moral vigour who put the needs of lobbyists over the needs of the people. Milliband might have been OK if he had any testicular fortitude about him, but the rest have had the whiff of Blairist Centre Right/Thatcher-lite for ages now. Personally I don't have have a problem with them, but it's not what the Labour Party is or what it should stand for. The Labour Party is now going to live or die by it's own ideals, not by trying to be something it isn't. That should be the way of Politics.

Parties should represent the views of its members not sell them out to chase votes. If a party isn't popular because of it, then it won't last long.
To bring this back to relevance, the Republicans SHOULD select Trump, it's what Grassroots republicans voters actually want (no matter how dumb an idea it would be). If the upper echelons of the Party don't like it tough, perhaps it isn't the Party for them.

Ruling Political Classes stitching up elections aren't representative of the people. Political Parties should be bottom up, not top down. It's the only way to make the system work, anything else is a sham. If I had my way, Political Parties would be banned, and have as 100% Independent Representatives as you can make it, no whip, no block voting, just the majority will. The Electorate would than actually have to know something about their candidates, not just pick the same colour every time.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Actual Labour Party members (voters and campaigners) who can vote in the leadership elections, fed up with pretty boy leaders of little moral vigour who put the needs of lobbyists over the needs of the people. Milliband might have been OK if he had any testicular fortitude about him, but the rest have had the whiff of Blairist Centre Right/Thatcher-lite for ages now. Personally I don't have have a problem with them, but it's not what the Labour Party is or what it should stand for. The Labour Party is now going to live or die by it's own ideals, not by trying to be something it isn't. That should be the way of Politics.

Parties should represent the views of its members not sell them out to chase votes. If a party isn't popular because of it, then it won't last long.
To bring this back to relevance, the Republicans SHOULD select Trump, it's what Grassroots republicans voters actually want (no matter how dumb an idea it would be). If the upper echelons of the Party don't like it tough, perhaps it isn't the Party for them.

Ruling Political Classes stitching up elections aren't representative of the people. Political Parties should be bottom up, not top down. It's the only way to make the system work, anything else is a sham. If I had my way, Political Parties would be banned, and have as 100% Independent Representatives as you can make it, no whip, no block voting, just the majority will. The Electorate would than actually have to know something about their candidates, not just pick the same colour every time.

How is that democratic though? I mean Labour has < 400,000 members (and that's with the huge influx of cheap members during the leadership campaign), yet received 9.3 million votes in the last election. To put that another way, just 4% of the people who voted for Labour are party members, so why should the party beholden to such a small proportion of their 'electorate'?

It's even worse in the Tories, with roughly 1% of the voters for them in 2015 being party members.

It's slightly different in America it seems, as the Republicans have 30 million members, which is roughly 50% of the number of votes they received in the 2012 election.

 

[Rook]

That assumes that there's a sensible candidate among them. I'm not sure there is. I just hope that Bloomberg decides to run.

There is literally no difference between Bloomberg and Hillary.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

There is literally no difference between Bloomberg and Hillary.

Could you elaborate a bit more?

 

[rascal]

Could you elaborate a bit more?

I guess he could be talking about his time as NY Mayor.