2021/22 Rafael Benitez

[ForeverBlue92]

Tbh I think there’s been a massive overreaction to some of the results.

Spurs performance was fine against Conte’s side who have won their other PL games.

Brentford we dominated possession away from home against a premier league team who wouldn’t have scored any other way than us gifting them a penalty.

Then Liverpool. I have watched derbies against them when we’ve looked like we couldn’t even get the ball. Even in the two games last season, it was disappointing that we couldn’t really do anything but defend and launch the odd attack. The Allardyce derby at Anfield we had good upfield that turned into the Rooney penalty but couldn’t get out our own penalty area. There’s been derbies where they are literally toying with us in our own penalty are and the ball is flashing between the goalposts every minute of the game.

On Wednesday though what I saw was actually not that much wrong with the tactics. We didn’t get hemmed in unable to get out at any point. We played through their lines multiple times and could get behind them at will if w head executed better. We started poorly yes but coming into half time it had been a fairly even game.

The difference lies in the mistakes for the Salah goals. Godfrey and Digne on the first one, Coleman on the second. That’s not tactical errors, that’s poor players losing concentration and not doing their jobs against one of the best forwards in the world at this point. Then of course we folded after the third goal and it looks like we’ve been routed and everyone is absolutely fuming. ‘Why did he play 442, we got overrun etc.’

I didn’t see us get overrun at all, in fact along with the Silva Pickford derby at Anfield, and the Martinez 3-3 at Goodison, it was one of the few derbies when I thought we actually tried to get on the ball and make the play and attempt to control the game against them rather than just put up a wall and hope for the best.

It didn’t work out, obviously, but have people not been calling for a manager who will try and take the game to top opposition? If those individual mistakes get ironed out moving forward suddenly that’s a very competitive performance against a very good side.

It was blown massively out of proportion, I can see why, it’s understandable, I was angry as well, but in the cold light of day that derby loss is nowhere near the massacres we had under Martinez, Koeman Silva, and in a way I’d rather land a few blows on them than get plucky draws.

There were times when Gray was getting played in behind them, Richarlison’s through ball for the goal, us working it round their box and across the pitch. Give me that any day over praying we can get a corner or set piece to somehow try and score. There were times in that game Liverpool were flustered and under the cosh but we didn’t execute on good positions to punish them whereas Salah was clinical on our mistakes.

I’ll get a load of abuse for this but it’s honestly my opinion on the game, we’ve played far far worse in a lot of derbies than we did on Wednesday.

I dont like the 2 in midfield but Dunc, Ancelotti and now Benitez are all playing it which makes me think Brands has had a say on it as well as DOF.


Nothing changes until the squad is better ultimately - I dont care if we finish 8th, 10th, 14th, 17th doesn't matter to me you dont get a trophy or day out at wembley for it.

Until we are winning trophies or seriously competing for the top 4 im not bothered who's in the dugout as we're midtable plodding club these days.

 

[JimmyK]

Tbh I think there’s been a massive overreaction to some of the results.

Spurs performance was fine against Conte’s side who have won their other PL games.

Brentford we dominated possession away from home against a premier league team who wouldn’t have scored any other way than us gifting them a penalty.

Then Liverpool. I have watched derbies against them when we’ve looked like we couldn’t even get the ball. Even in the two games last season, it was disappointing that we couldn’t really do anything but defend and launch the odd attack. The Allardyce derby at Anfield we had good upfield that turned into the Rooney penalty but couldn’t get out our own penalty area. There’s been derbies where they are literally toying with us in our own penalty are and the ball is flashing between the goalposts every minute of the game.

On Wednesday though what I saw was actually not that much wrong with the tactics. We didn’t get hemmed in unable to get out at any point. We played through their lines multiple times and could get behind them at will if w head executed better. We started poorly yes but coming into half time it had been a fairly even game.

The difference lies in the mistakes for the Salah goals. Godfrey and Digne on the first one, Coleman on the second. That’s not tactical errors, that’s poor players losing concentration and not doing their jobs against one of the best forwards in the world at this point. Then of course we folded after the third goal and it looks like we’ve been routed and everyone is absolutely fuming. ‘Why did he play 442, we got overrun etc.’

I didn’t see us get overrun at all, in fact along with the Silva Pickford derby at Anfield, and the Martinez 3-3 at Goodison, it was one of the few derbies when I thought we actually tried to get on the ball and make the play and attempt to control the game against them rather than just put up a wall and hope for the best.

It didn’t work out, obviously, but have people not been calling for a manager who will try and take the game to top opposition? If those individual mistakes get ironed out moving forward suddenly that’s a very competitive performance against a very good side.

It was blown massively out of proportion, I can see why, it’s understandable, I was angry as well, but in the cold light of day that derby loss is nowhere near the massacres we had under Martinez, Koeman Silva, and in a way I’d rather land a few blows on them than get plucky draws.

There were times when Gray was getting played in behind them, Richarlison’s through ball for the goal, us working it round their box and across the pitch. Give me that any day over praying we can get a corner or set piece to somehow try and score. There were times in that game Liverpool were flustered and under the cosh but we didn’t execute on good positions to punish them whereas Salah was clinical on our mistakes.

I’ll get a load of abuse for this but it’s honestly my opinion on the game, we’ve played far far worse in a lot of derbies than we did on Wednesday.

They could easily have scored 4 or 5 in the first 20 minutes on wednesday no exaggeration. If you don't think we got overrun I can only think you didn't watch it it was torture to watch. We got better after that but the damage was done and although we were in the game on paper we never really looked like scoring again. The Spurs game was crap aswell did we even have a shot?

 

[ToffeeTim]

I dont like the 2 in midfield but Dunc, Ancelotti and now Benitez are all playing it which makes me think Brands has had a say on it as well as DOF.


Nothing changes until the squad is better ultimately - I dont care if we finish 8th, 10th, 14th, 17th doesn't matter to me you dont get a trophy or day out at wembley for it.

Until we are winning trophies or seriously competing for the top 4 im not bothered who's in the dugout as we're midtable plodding club these days.

You need the right person in the dugout before anything even close to trophies or europe can happen.

 

[willo30]

All ok up til the Big Sam shout!

as for deserving it, I guess you are correct to a point, we have behaved very poorly as a club, in terms of business, for such a long time that it is a reap what you sow thing.

Its gutting as we have the potential to awaken from this slumber but i fear Mosh has actually set us so far back that it will be a longer road out of it.

Nuts really!


I Still believe tho!

UTFT

My reasoning around Sam was a straight choice.

1. A manager who had just finished 8th in the PL
2. A manager who had been sacked by Watford.

Sam over Silva for me as that seemed the only choice at the time.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

You need the right person in the dugout before anything even close to trophies or europe can happen.

DOF
Recruitment Team
Chairman
Medical department
Players

Manager alone isn't going to change anything particularly when the next one in isn't going to be any better than a Nuno/Lampard Type appointment.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Individual mistakes are the killer problem though. They are a two way thing. Obviously players need to take more responsibility and not make basic errors so often. But when the errors happen so often, it's only right we look at the coaching and organisation. At the start under Martinez the players made few basic defensive errors, but gradually it became more and more and scrutiny then passed onto the manager, and fair enough in my opinion.

We need to be more organised while we lack cutting edge. If we concede more than 1 goal we are very unlikely to get results. Our defending this season has shocked me this season because I at least exepcted Benitez to have us organised. We need to see vast improvements in our organisation or we will make more and more individual errors because the pressure on the defence is too great. That involves a full team effort, right from centre forward protecting the ball better.

The coach ultimately takes responsibility for it as he selects them but these players have been making mistakes under numerous managers for years.

I’ve seen signs of us improving defensively (again this will be laughed at) but apart from the first set piece against Liverpool when we completely lost our heads for the first ten minutes, I didn’t feel we’d concede from a set piece. I didn’t feel that against Brentford or Spurs either.

There’s a lot to man about, obviously, but there’s some green shoots of improvement as well. If we can reduce the individual errors and be more clinical upfront the bits in between aren’t actually looking so bad. We executed attacking passing moves against one of the best sides in the world numerous times. That’s surely coaching. Once Townsend and Gray get in behind then mis hit it, or Doucoure doesn’t put his laces through it, the chance is gone but the attacking moves as a team are there. Same as they were against Brentford, yes Rondon missed the opportunities but I don’t see a team like we had under Koeman that had absolutely no clue what it was doing in either box. I see a team being coached but everything being undermined currently by extreme sloppiness.

Benitez needs to stamp this out or he will get fired, but if he can there’s something to build on in my view. I’m not seeing a completely broken team here like the end days of Koeman. This for me feels similar to Silva, the coaching principles are there for performances to be good but the players at the moment are not executing it.

Now we have the choice of changing the players, keeping the coaching principles and moving forward, or we go back to Allardyce and even what Ancelotti reverted to of accepting the players are rubbish and playing park the bus football every game. I’d rather do the first one but it’s a riskier road. The players definitely don’t want to do the first one as they know they’ll be out. They want a pragmatist to come in and rescue the season with some results and have Keane and Coleman sat deep, three in midfield just defending, and then long balls to DCL and Richarlison. That gets points, we’ve seen it before but we’re going nowhere with that.

 

[ToffeeTim]

DOF
Recruitment Team
Chairman
Medical department
Players

Manager alone isn't going to change anything particularly when the next one in isn't going to be any better than a Nuno/Lampard Type appointment.

No one part alone will but manager is the most important one and the only one that can start to improve things immediately outside a transfer window.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Tbh I think there’s been a massive overreaction to some of the results.

Spurs performance was fine against Conte’s side who have won their other PL games.

Brentford we dominated possession away from home against a premier league team who wouldn’t have scored any other way than us gifting them a penalty.

Then Liverpool. I have watched derbies against them when we’ve looked like we couldn’t even get the ball. Even in the two games last season, it was disappointing that we couldn’t really do anything but defend and launch the odd attack. The Allardyce derby at Anfield we had good upfield that turned into the Rooney penalty but couldn’t get out our own penalty area. There’s been derbies where they are literally toying with us in our own penalty are and the ball is flashing between the goalposts every minute of the game.

On Wednesday though what I saw was actually not that much wrong with the tactics. We didn’t get hemmed in unable to get out at any point. We played through their lines multiple times and could get behind them at will if w head executed better. We started poorly yes but coming into half time it had been a fairly even game.

The difference lies in the mistakes for the Salah goals. Godfrey and Digne on the first one, Coleman on the second. That’s not tactical errors, that’s poor players losing concentration and not doing their jobs against one of the best forwards in the world at this point. Then of course we folded after the third goal and it looks like we’ve been routed and everyone is absolutely fuming. ‘Why did he play 442, we got overrun etc.’

I didn’t see us get overrun at all, in fact along with the Silva Pickford derby at Anfield, and the Martinez 3-3 at Goodison, it was one of the few derbies when I thought we actually tried to get on the ball and make the play and attempt to control the game against them rather than just put up a wall and hope for the best.

It didn’t work out, obviously, but have people not been calling for a manager who will try and take the game to top opposition? If those individual mistakes get ironed out moving forward suddenly that’s a very competitive performance against a very good side.

It was blown massively out of proportion, I can see why, it’s understandable, I was angry as well, but in the cold light of day that derby loss is nowhere near the massacres we had under Martinez, Koeman Silva, and in a way I’d rather land a few blows on them than get plucky draws.

There were times when Gray was getting played in behind them, Richarlison’s through ball for the goal, us working it round their box and across the pitch. Give me that any day over praying we can get a corner or set piece to somehow try and score. There were times in that game Liverpool were flustered and under the cosh but we didn’t execute on good positions to punish them whereas Salah was clinical on our mistakes.

I’ll get a load of abuse for this but it’s honestly my opinion on the game, we’ve played far far worse in a lot of derbies than we did on Wednesday.

Excellent, sensible post

 

[ToffeeTim]

The coach ultimately takes responsibility for it as he selects them but these players have been making mistakes under numerous managers for years.

I’ve seen signs of us improving defensively (again this will be laughed at) but apart from the first set piece against Liverpool when we completely lost our heads for the first ten minutes, I didn’t feel we’d concede from a set piece. I didn’t feel that against Brentford or Spurs either.

There’s a lot to man about, obviously, but there’s some green shoots of improvement as well. If we can reduce the individual errors and be more clinical upfront the bits in between aren’t actually looking so bad. We executed attacking passing moves against one of the best sides in the world numerous times. That’s surely coaching. Once Townsend and Gray get in behind then mis hit it, or Doucoure doesn’t put his laces through it, the chance is gone but the attacking moves as a team are there. Same as they were against Brentford, yes Rondon missed the opportunities but I don’t see a team like we had under Koeman that had absolutely no clue what it was doing in either box. I see a team being coached but everything being undermined currently by extreme sloppiness.

Benitez needs to stamp this out or he will get fired, but if he can there’s something to build on in my view. I’m not seeing a completely broken team here like the end days of Koeman. This for me feels similar to Silva, the coaching principles are there for performances to be good but the players at the moment are not executing it.

Now we have the choice of changing the players, keeping the coaching principles and moving forward, or we go back to Allardyce and even what Ancelotti reverted to of accepting the players are rubbish and playing park the bus football every game. I’d rather do the first one but it’s a riskier road. The players definitely don’t want to do the first one as they know they’ll be out. They want a pragmatist to come in and rescue the season with some results and have Keane and Coleman sat deep, three in midfield just defending, and then long balls to DCL and Richarlison. That gets points, we’ve seen it before but we’re going nowhere with that.

I think we have to be pragmatic over the next month or we could pick up only 1 or 2 more points from the next 5 games. At that point, we are in trouble legitimately.

We need points asap, and we are short of options. Regardless of what way we play, the set plays need to improve because we aren't threatening to score and look fragile defending them. That's the biggest disappointment after last year because they are the way to sneak points with average players.

 

[billyblue80]

We're absolutely wide open against one of the best teams in the country he either changes or he goes. If he doesn't I fear relegation.

 

[lancs blue]

We are only two plays calvert lewin and Mina away from winning games again according to the fat waiter

Thr players need an alex ferguson style tea cup throwing meeting. They've had it too easy for too long

As for managers who would come with the barm pot team in overall charge.

Moshri is the problem. Until he gets a pair thr insanity will continue. He doesn't seem bothered about wasting £500 mill which is the main problem

 

[ForeverBlue92]

No one part alone will but manager is the most important one and the only one that can start to improve things immediately outside a transfer window.

Not really - we had Ancelotti playing the most boring football since Mike Walker just so we can try win games 1-0 and stop our calamity defenders from throwing balls into their own net.

Fans have the "any port in a storm" mentality at present but give it 10-15 games of what we saw last season and the same fans will be bored stiff/clawing their eyes out.

The biggest problem we have by far is the players they just aint good enough.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Not really - we had Ancelotti playing the most boring football since Mike Walker just so we can try win games 1-0 and stop our calamity defenders from throwing balls into their own net.

Fans have the "any port in a storm" mentality at present but give it 10-15 games of what we saw last season and the same fans will be bored stiff/clawing their eyes out.

The biggest problem we have by far is the players they just aint good enough.

I liked Ancelotti's tactics a lot, so you're talking to the wrong person. He was a proper pragmatist, playing the best way for the players at his disposal. He could do a number on opposition managers in a one off game.

Give me boring narrow wins over losing 5-2 and 4-1 at home

 

[ForeverBlue92]

I liked Ancelotti's tactics a lot, so you're talking to the wrong person. He was a proper pragmatist, playing the best way for the players at his disposal. He could do a number on opposition managers in a one off game.

Give me boring narrow wins over losing 5-2 and 4-1 at home

Ancelotti's style wouldn't have lasted with fans in the ground. He was lucky he had empty stadiums as playing for a 1-0 win at home to already relegated Sheffield Utd would have faced a backlash from the home crowd particularly if we ended up losing.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Not really - we had Ancelotti playing the most boring football since Mike Walker just so we can try win games 1-0 and stop our calamity defenders from throwing balls into their own net.

Fans have the "any port in a storm" mentality at present but give it 10-15 games of what we saw last season and the same fans will be bored stiff/clawing their eyes out.

The biggest problem we have by far is the players they just aint good enough.

I liked Ancelotti but towards the end all the same problems were there.

Pickford had a horrible period of throwing the ball in his net almost every game.

We had Davies getting caught in possession numerous times leading to goals.

The Keane errors against Spurs threw away an actual decent performance.

Digne and Coleman had to be binned from the starting line up as they just couldn’t not make mistakes. Godfrey and Holgate at FB hampered our attacking play though.

There’s no two ways about it, these players will make huge individual errors under any manager. They have to be replaced.