Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[oldblue]

We all would mate, can't argue with the way we attack being the best in 30 years.

The issue i think in the grand scheme of things is martinez hasn't changed in his time with 2 clubs now. What he did wrong at wigan he is repeating here, which is frightening tbh. You can't argue that similar tactics, similar flaws and similar soundbites just don't install any confidence any more that he is the right manager for the job, and more importantly, how many of the players think that too?

i mentioned it yesterday, the likes of stoke / west ham shown a little bit of ambition in changing managers and they have benefitted massively from it, and in both instances you couldn't fault the previous manager in their job. We could either do a Moyes and give Roberto more time and repeat this obviously endless cycle, or we could just let him go and show a little bit more desire to the squad tat mid table in the league just isn't good enough.

I think the debate has become about obvious improvement and I've switched this season from thinking he may not be up for it to believing he's worth sticking with. I know the league table means a lot but I've sat watching too many absolutely hopeless sides to not give him credit for how we are playing, some of the players he has brought in and that he does seem to be looking at players coming through down the line.
We have also not been outplayed in more than a couple of games. That's obviously a glass half empty/half full scenario but for me it indicates there is a chance we are very close to a great team.
Personally think managers in general are overrated and stability has generally been key for teams in the long term.

 

[daz4matty]

rubbish they get booted out the door and so they should

oh I forgot 5th is now mid table, no different to 12th LOL

Davek has lost it mate i honestly think he is trying to wind us blues up.

 

[chicoazul]

We could end up being 1st or 2nd top scorers in the league and finishing 12th. That's damning

No it's not. It just means we have to fix our defensive third through personnel or tactics and we should have a very dangerous team.

 

[eddy]

I've noticed that as well today but I'm not sure they actually believe it or they are just trying to unsettle us before Saturday. Strange that it's taken getting beat by a decent side and not by dross like Swansea and WBA.

I think its the `how we get beat` that is creating the interest, speculation

 

[eddy]

I'm still in the Martinez fan club, but that substitution has still got me riled up when I think about it. I said it the other day, but I still can't get my head round why after being 2 up Martinez didn't just park the bus to see the game out.

Because he can`t, its against his philosophy and I unfortunatly think we will see it again sat

 

[bluestevon]

No it's not. It just means we have to fix our defensive third through personnel or tactics and we should have a very dangerous team.

And do you admit that possibly the best personnel change we could make to fix that defensive third may in fact be the manager?

 

[snipellis11]

No it's not. It just means we have to fix our defensive third through personnel or tactics and we should have a very dangerous team.

Yeah i agree but what my worry is has he got what it takes to sort the defensive side out because on evidence of his time in the prem it doesn't look good.

 

[oldblue]

No it's not. It just means we have to fix our defensive third through personnel or tactics and we should have a very dangerous team.

Exactly. People having passionate opinions is one thing but it's getting to the point where positives like our attacking play and talented squad are being used against the personal responsible for them.
Defence needs to improve but are people sincere in wanting this if they can't look back over the last handful of games and say it has apart from ten minutes with a side flat out after playing with ten men

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Because he can`t, its against his philosophy and I unfortunatly think we will see it again sat

Hopefully, Leopard, spots, change, comes to mind mate.

 

[tremont]

If there's ever been a greater example of the illusion and delusion of the internet its this debate right now on here over Martinez.

There's a mass self-convincement exercise going on that this manager is going to be unseated, and it doesn't even register in the wider world. It's as if people are saying to themselves "if I close my eyes and wish and wish and wish hard enough, when I open them it'll come true".

It's breath-taking in its scope and in its utter wrongheadedness.

We're looking at midtable and 2 cup SFs - and Everton managers get a pat on the head for a season like that, not the sack.

Jesus wept. Why do more than a handful of us not see this?

The hysteria wasn't there before the West Ham game, and it'll disappear just as fast after the Chelsea game if/when we win.

The last three days or so of this thread and the other Martinez thread are the stuff of comic gold that'll be archived for years to come. A rich seam of hyperbole and fume that'll be hilariously revisited on their perpetrators.

Throw open a window or door lads. The world out there doesn't register your efforts.

Dear me.

*shakes head*

I think you're missing the point of this thread mate. This is the "Martinez in or out" thread. Basically it is asking if the fans want him in or out. It isn't asking what they think the Board are going to do. "It isn't going to happen" is all you keep firing back at anyone that wants him out. Nobody asked you what you thought was going to happen. The clue is in the name of the thread.

I don't think the board will sack him at the end of the season - but I do think he has had long enough, so my vote is out. What I want to happen, and what actually happens are two different things.

 

[bluewally]

Exactly. People having passionate opinions is one thing but it's getting to the point where positives like our attacking play and talented squad are being used against the personal responsible for them.
Defence needs to improve but are people sincere in wanting this if they can't look back over the last handful of games and say it has apart from ten minutes with a side flat out after playing with ten men

But we were playing a fairly low level of opposition in most of those games. Carlisle, Newcastle, Bournemouth (who made 10 changes for the cup game).

I really feel this recent defensive improvement is a result of a favourable run of fixtures rather than any significant change.

 

[Ashtonian]

I think the debate has become about obvious improvement and I've switched this season from thinking he may not be up for it to believing he's worth sticking with. I know the league table means a lot but I've sat watching too many absolutely hopeless sides to not give him credit for how we are playing, some of the players he has brought in and that he does seem to be looking at players coming through down the line.
We have also not been outplayed in more than a couple of games. That's obviously a glass half empty/half full scenario but for me it indicates there is a chance we are very close to a great team.
Personally think managers in general are overrated and stability has generally been key for teams in the long term.

See the way i look at it is we keep looking at the season game by game and glossing over things. Last year after we secured our safety in march (?!) i said i would give him until christmas. When christmas came, i was happy to hold my hands up and say fair enough, there is improvement made here. Its only when you step away after West ham in my mind, that you see that actually it is the emporers new clothes situation. The football improved but not the results, and the result shaven't improved on that front since he joined wigan. He obviously has his philosophy and has said many times he won't waver from it, and yet it doesn't work. It has been said many times but 2 -3 goals to the good and you have nothing to show for it means there was no point in having those three goals to begin with. One of the highest scorers in the league, yet swansea/bournemoth/palace/west brom are are peers in the league?

It just paints the picture of a manager who has not got a clue how to take the step beyond his initial ideas, we are close to being a great team, but that is down to the players not the manager. It is only when he gets involved does the team suffer!

 

[chicoazul]

Yeah and it was all going great until he made a sub that effectively reduced us to 9 men. That was one of the worst subs I've ever seen in my life

It really wasn't. He replaced Lennon with a player who was meant to fill a similar position but with fresher legs and be an outlet ball while stopping their defence moving ten yards forward and squeezing the play.

It wasn't the reason we got beat. Hysteria picked up on in in hindsight mate.

 

[oldblue]

Yeah i agree but what my worry is has he got what it takes to sort the defensive side out because on evidence of his time in the prem it doesn't look good.

I think we've seen more than enough signs that Mori and Robles can sort part of it out. Taking Stones out of the limelight while he is still developing is also an indication he knows he can't just throw good footballers on the pitch and expect it to work.
Managers do grow into jobs and there's signs he can get it right.
We're honestly overreacting to a game we played with ten men with and a poor sub that may not even have mattered.
Up to that point we'd conceded one goal in a handful of games

 

[BlueToff]

It really wasn't. He replaced Lennon with a player who was meant to fill a similar position but with fresher legs and be an outlet ball while stopping their defence moving ten yards forward and squeezing the play.

It wasn't the reason we got beat. Hysteria picked up on in in hindsight mate.

I've gotta say on this occasion I was truly baffled by the choice to bring Niasse on for Lennon though.

If the plan was to keep that pace and link up, bring on Del. He may be young but at least he's got two years experience in the Prem under his belt and offers real pace to keep W.Ham pushed back. I know it'd be a risk but it was always going to be if he made any other change other than Barry to come on and sit in.