Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Timak]

Besic + McCarthy in the centre and add Barry in there as the veteran, not really 'style over substance'?

Hes an attacking manager so has been improving front to back rather than the back to front approach....with that in mind i dont think hes done too badly has he?

We are below West Bromwich Albion and Bournemouth are almost level on points with us. We've had years of moaning about only finishing 6th and failing to win away against the top teams. Now the same people are saying 12th is an achievement.

 

[Zatara]

Not quite sure what your post has to do with mine... As someone who goes to home match, no one is sat there actively wanting Everton to lose. Everyone wants to go there and watch Everton win, not blow two goals leads every other week which makes wanting Martinez gone a decision about wanting Everton to win again.

People who say people are actively cheering for Everton to lose every week are just scraping the barrel of desperation because the man they have put all their chips behind has been proven to be a failure...

Huh? Read through the thread and then tell me your last
paragraph is serious?

oh and if youre given a work contract and are sacked before you finish your work prior to the timeframe agreed does that make you a failure? As im quite confident that Martinez remit was fo build a squad over a period of time which he is still within.

Calling someone / anyone a failure for not completing their work ahead of schedule is a bit silly.

 

[davek]

No mate he actually was trying to loan his teamate Ba if you remember and was told Lukaku was available instead instead, so think that may be counted as Lucky really dont you?
Lucky on Deulofeu, Mori and Lennon - obviously not, paid decent money for an argentinian international cb - Lennon was a very known commodity, and deuofeu has been one of the most highly touted youngsters for years, all three where good buys no doubt about it

Oh right, it was all a big mistake. Lol. That's the best I've heard yet. No doubt you got that gem from 'sources close to Martinez' or some such nonsense.

But you will allow credit for bringing in Lennon, Deulofeu and Mori...but, oh no, there's problems with that too.

Honest to God mate, you need to put down the pitchfork and stop running with the angry mob. All reason has deserted you.

See you didn't comment on the part about martinez being unable to coach a defense though

Also didn't touch the fact that without Lukaku we'd be in deep [Poor language removed] for the last two seasons either

because a) it's an embarrassing argument that gets dragged out after a poor loss...when it was completely forgotten about in the 12 matches that preceded it when we only conceded a handful of goals...if you'd argued the 'poor defence orgainser' at that point, your case might have some credibility rather than looking opportunistic, and b ) I dont bother pointing out that Martinez's first season had us change massively our style of play out from the back and yet we conceded 39 goals (one of the two most impressive defensive records in the past 20 years or so), because that's always thrown back as being the result of Moyes sprinkling down his magic beans. So, all in all - I didn't respond because the question is hopelessly loaded by people who should know better but dont.

 

[Zatara]

Are you being serious Zat?

Or do you mean he is sneaky and the fact he took over a very good defensive team means he had to utterly make them terrible in order to improve them to being awful?

You don't fix a hole in a bucket and cause two other holes to appear when doing so and call it a good job mate

It's Martinez - ofc he tried to improve the front end first, because he has not got a single clue what he is doing at the back, his entire career shows he hasn't got a single clue, we have gone further back defensively udner his tenure than we have improved going forward that is a simple fact

Anichebe and Jelavic = Lukaku
Pienaar gibson osman mirallas = cleverley mccarthy barkley besic deulofeu
Distin = mori and galloway

Which players shouldnt he have signed in order to sign defenders and a keeper?

 

[Zatara]

Oh right, it was all a big mistake. Lol. That's the best I've heard yet. No doubt you got that gem from 'sources close to Martinez' or some such nonsense.

But you will allow credit for bringing in Lennon, Deulofeu and Mori...but, oh no, there's problems with that too.

Honest to God mate, you need to put down the pitchfork and stop running with the angry mob. All reason has deserted you.




because a) it's an embarrassing argument that gets dragged out after a poor loss...when it was completely forgotten about in the 12 matches that preceded it when we only conceded a handful of goals...if you'd argued the 'poor defence orgainser' at that point, your case might have some credibility rather than looking opportunistic, and b ) I dont bother pointing out that Martinez's first season had us change massively our style of play out from the back and yet we conceded 39 goals (one of the two most impressive defensive records in the past 20 years or so), because that's always thrown back as being the result of Moyes sprinkling down his magic beans. So, all in all - I didn't respond because the question is hopelessly loaded by people who should know better but dont.

Also its forgotten that he managed to play that way despite having Moyes defence rater than assisted by it. Distin Jags and Coleman are hardly tiki taka specialists.

He will need to improve the defence next to suit the system and style of play which is where Mori next season is key as are other ball playing defenders enabling us to play a higher line and keep the ball better always on fhe front foot which isnt ideal with Jags especially.

 

[marsh]

Stop the bickering people. Today is a day to be as one, support Roberto and support the players!! Get behind them and lets get to Wembley.

Onwards Evertonians.....

 

[davek]

Also its forgotten that he managed to play that way despite having Moyes defence rater than assisted by it. Distin Jags and Coleman are hardly tiki taka specialists.

He will need to improve the defence next to suit the system and style of play which is where Mori next season is key as are other ball playing defenders enabling us to play a higher line and keep the ball better always on fhe front foot which isnt ideal with Jags especially.

He basically got a defence scared to death of taking a couple of touches under Moyes to actually become footballers...and they took to it very well when trusted.

Of course the numb nuts argument is that the back four were playing the way they did under Moyes and that was the reason for the 39 goals conceded.

Then they wonder why their whinging about defence cant be taken seriously.

 

[nsno-chris]

Also its forgotten that he managed to play that way despite having Moyes defence rater than assisted by it. Distin Jags and Coleman are hardly tiki taka specialists.

He will need to improve the defence next to suit the system and style of play which is where Mori next season is key as are other ball playing defenders enabling us to play a higher line and keep the ball better always on fhe front foot which isnt ideal with Jags especially.

You talk absolute guff

 

[bluestevon]

Oh right, it was all a big mistake. Lol. That's the best I've heard yet. No doubt you got that gem from 'sources close to Martinez' or some such nonsense.

But you will allow credit for bringing in Lennon, Deulofeu and Mori...but, oh no, there's problems with that too.

Honest to God mate, you need to put down the pitchfork and stop running with the angry mob. All reason has deserted you.




because a) it's an embarrassing argument that gets dragged out after a poor loss...when it was completely forgotten about in the 12 matches that preceded it when we only conceded a handful of goals...if you'd argued the 'poor defence orgainser' at that point, your case might have some credibility rather than looking opportunistic, and b ) I dont bother pointing out that Martinez's first season had us change massively our style of play out from the back and yet we conceded 39 goals (one of the two most impressive defensive records in the past 20 years or so), because that's always thrown back as being the result of Moyes sprinkling down his magic beans. So, all in all - I didn't respond because the question is hopelessly loaded by people who should know better but dont.

The Toffees had been tipped off that the 28-year-old could go and wanted to beat Arsenal for his signature, ideally on loan.

However, Chelsea blocked that move and revealed that Lukaku, who scored 17 goals on loan at West Brom last season, would be available instead - and Everton came up with the best terms to borrow the 20-year-old Belgian.

A source close to Martinez revealed: "It only came up about 3 o'clock on the final day. Fortunately, everybody was able to push it through in a hurry."

From numerous sources at the time

As for the one good defensive year that Martinez has ever had in the premiership in 7 seasons mate, you think it was a pure coincidence and had nothing to do with the fact he repalced a manager who had consistantly had a very well drilled defensive team with a low amount of conceded goals?

Simple question - do you think that Martinez only god defensive record as a manager being the one that followed him taking over from a very good defensive managers team had a large part to play in it?

Follow up question - if you reckon the first season was all down to Martinez - then why has he been incapable of ever reproducing that season in his other 6 years in the premiership?

 

[JAYTALITY]

Big day for the Bobster with Our new overlord sitting in the stands. The eye of mordor is focused firmly on him so it's either a muchos grande performance or it's adios amigo.

Much beuno el post.

 

[bluestevon]

Anichebe and Jelavic = Lukaku
Pienaar gibson osman mirallas = cleverley mccarthy barkley besic deulofeu
Distin = mori and galloway

Which players shouldnt he have signed in order to sign defenders and a keeper?

It wouldn't matter who he signed as a defender, he could have the spurs defence or Arsenal or any other team in this league or the world and within 2 seasons they would be shipping goals at an alarming rate

 

[JAYTALITY]

Oh right, it was all a big mistake. Lol. That's the best I've heard yet. No doubt you got that gem from 'sources close to Martinez' or some such nonsense.

But you will allow credit for bringing in Lennon, Deulofeu and Mori...but, oh no, there's problems with that too.

Honest to God mate, you need to put down the pitchfork and stop running with the angry mob. All reason has deserted you.




because a) it's an embarrassing argument that gets dragged out after a poor loss...when it was completely forgotten about in the 12 matches that preceded it when we only conceded a handful of goals...if you'd argued the 'poor defence orgainser' at that point, your case might have some credibility rather than looking opportunistic, and b ) I dont bother pointing out that Martinez's first season had us change massively our style of play out from the back and yet we conceded 39 goals (one of the two most impressive defensive records in the past 20 years or so), because that's always thrown back as being the result of Moyes sprinkling down his magic beans. So, all in all - I didn't respond because the question is hopelessly loaded by people who should know better but dont.

Although I myself may not exactly agree with Martinez being lucky with Lukaku either. You have come out with far more reaching stuff than saying Roberto got lucky with a transfer. Be you defending Martinez or bashing Moyes.

 

[davek]

The Toffees had been tipped off that the 28-year-old could go and wanted to beat Arsenal for his signature, ideally on loan.
However, Chelsea blocked that move and revealed that Lukaku, who scored 17 goals on loan at West Brom last season, would be available instead - and Everton came up with the best terms to borrow the 20-year-old Belgian.
A source close to Martinez revealed: "It only came up about 3 o'clock on the final day. Fortunately, everybody was able to push it through in a hurry."

lol There's that 'source' I predicted.

kin ell mate. He put a transfer budget for a whole summer on the line to get this lad in and it would have been a disaster if he'd not continued to score. Give the man some credit will you? You really are scraping the barrel here trying to claim Lukaku was a fluke incoming and a success that was assured.

As for the one good defensive year that Martinez has ever had in the premiership in 7 seasons mate, you think it was a pure coincidence and had nothing to do with the fact he repalced a manager who had consistantly had a very well drilled defensive team with a low amount of conceded goals? Simple question - do you think that Martinez only god defensive record as a manager being the one that followed him taking over from a very good defensive managers team had a large part to play in it?

He changed the way we played at the back completely. How on earth can the previous manager lay claim to any of the defensive robustness?

Follow up question - if you reckon the first season was all down to Martinez - then why has he been incapable of ever reproducing that season in his other 6 years in the premiership?

I dont care about his Wigan days - they dont bear comparison to managing Everton. His ;ast two seasons here are the issue. On that I'd say we're actually more advanced now than we were in that very good first season. This team is technically much superior to the 2013/14 edition. The results this season have not reflected that, at least those not at home in the PL. This is down to poor onfield organisation and spirit. I do partly lay that at the door of RM actually. He should have had the strength to replace Jagielka as captain and to have seen Howard out the team a lot earlier. I'd also say, as good as Barry has been for us, we need younger and hungrier players in that CM now and a lot more pressing before we get ourselves chasing toward our own goal.

 

[bluestevon]

lol There's that 'source' I predicted.

kin ell mate. He put a transfer budget for a whole summer on the line to get this lad in and it would have been a disaster if he'd not continued to score. Give the man some credit will you? You really are scraping the barrel here trying to claim Lukaku was a fluke incoming and a success that was assured.



He changed the way we played at the back completely. How on earth can the previous manager lay claim to any of the defensive robustness?



I dont care about his Wigan days - they dont bear comparison to managing Everton. His ;ast two seasons here are the issue. On that I'd say we're actually more advanced now than we were in that very good first season. This team is technically much superior to the 2013/14 edition. The results this season have not reflected that, at least those not at home in the PL. This is down to poor onfield organisation and spirit. I do partly lay that at the door of RM actually. He should have had the strength to replace Jagielka as captain and to have seen Howard out the team a lot earlier. I'd also say, as good as Barry has been for us, we need younger and hungrier players in that CM now and a lot more pressing before we get ourselves chasing toward our own goal.

Errrrm Dave you do realise that the got lucky getting Lukaku refers to his original loan not when he bought him don't you? seems from your response you think i mean when we actually bought him which would be silly
He tried to Loan Ba in got knocked back and then was offered the chance to take Lukaku on loan isntead - so mate in any definition of the words that was bloody lucky

He changed the way we played at the back completely? hmmm from a building up attacks point of view he did start to thats for sure, but in which case why did effectively the same defence you have just slated as players - Jagielka being the classic example suddenly become unable to defend from last season onwards? and i'd give credit to Martinez for the first season of a very defensive coach who took over this nsquad and the fact it would almost certainly have a lot of attacking flair remaining that first season, to not give credit for that first season shows how blind you are mate, you know i hated moyes but god at leats i can acknowledge the fact he had this team drilled defensively and had their fitness high and that doesnt dissapear overnight

This team right now is better and more advanced than our best ever 72 points total wodnerful marvelous season mate? really? have you actually watched the way we routinely collapse in games, the fact that the manager has made numerous terrible calls in too mamny games to list now and the fact that every single team turns up at Goodison knowing they can get three points regardless of even being a couple down in a game

We don't press as a team because your favourite man doesn't and never has had his teams pressing as anything other than a one game thing mate, its not in his phillosophy to do so, the only players we have who press do it as part of their natural game as they are energizer bunnies, Besic and Lennon, we dont close crosses down because the manager doesnt prioritize it, he sees everything from an attacking mentality and point of view and whilst that can be a good quality when its the only quality it becomes amazingly narrow sighted and easily taken advantage of

 

[Zatara]

We are below West Bromwich Albion and Bournemouth are almost level on points with us. We've had years of moaning about only finishing 6th and failing to win away against the top teams. Now the same people are saying 12th is an achievement.

Two steps back for 5 steps forward...2 seasons of sacrifice while we develop the players and then the next 5 will be rosy...