Well aware he's made mistakes. Although I'd still question how significant that one was compared to the team generally flagging. All a question of how big a problem it is and how solvable. So for that reason if we use how many times we've lost a lead while dominating against him we do have to take into account how often we're dominating.
Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)
- Thread starter Fat Stan
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deipnosophist
Player Valuation: £80m
I suspect D Avek would remain staunch to the corner he'd painted and nailed himself in. As for Zatara...who knows?
deipnosophist
Player Valuation: £80m
Hope your right mate, I don't hold out any hope though that this place won't go into meltdown if we get beat, no matter how much the plotters piped down after Chelsea.
Don't know if it's already been put up:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ez-poor-home-record-people-pitch-perform.html
Everton captain Phil Jagielka has defended manager Roberto Martinez by admitting players cannot only take credit for good performances but must shoulder a fair share of blame for poor ones too.
Toffees fans are on a high after booking a first trip to Wembley in four years, where they will face Manchester United or West Ham in the FA Cup semi-final after beating Chelsea at the weekend.
But in the preceding seven days the number of dissenters calling for Martinez to be replaced grew to its highest level after a late collapse from 2-0 up against West Ham saw them lose 3-2 in the Premier League, with Kevin Mirallas sent off.
Reports also began to emerge claiming the players were losing faith in Martinez's open approach to football and wanted to be more pragmatic at times.
There were obviously no such criticisms following the win over Chelsea, in which striker Romelu Lukaku, Aaron Lennon and Jagielka all starred and after which chairman Bill Kenwright spoke out publicly in support of his manager.
But Jagielka knows it will only take another poor display - with Arsenal the visitors this weekend - for the tide to turn against Martinez again.
'In that position you are judged on how you affect the game and unfortunately, with the way criticisms went and what happened last week, conceding three goals in the last 12 minutes, obviously people were quick to forget we were down to 10 men for the majority of the game,' said the Everton captain.
'Obviously the manager has to take some responsibility because that's his role but to the same extent, we're the people out on the pitch and we have to perform.'
'You can't throw all the blame the manager's way, there has to be a pretty even split between him and the players.
'I understand that people will do that, because that's the way football is.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ez-poor-home-record-people-pitch-perform.html
Everton captain Phil Jagielka has defended manager Roberto Martinez by admitting players cannot only take credit for good performances but must shoulder a fair share of blame for poor ones too.
Toffees fans are on a high after booking a first trip to Wembley in four years, where they will face Manchester United or West Ham in the FA Cup semi-final after beating Chelsea at the weekend.
But in the preceding seven days the number of dissenters calling for Martinez to be replaced grew to its highest level after a late collapse from 2-0 up against West Ham saw them lose 3-2 in the Premier League, with Kevin Mirallas sent off.
Reports also began to emerge claiming the players were losing faith in Martinez's open approach to football and wanted to be more pragmatic at times.
There were obviously no such criticisms following the win over Chelsea, in which striker Romelu Lukaku, Aaron Lennon and Jagielka all starred and after which chairman Bill Kenwright spoke out publicly in support of his manager.
But Jagielka knows it will only take another poor display - with Arsenal the visitors this weekend - for the tide to turn against Martinez again.
'In that position you are judged on how you affect the game and unfortunately, with the way criticisms went and what happened last week, conceding three goals in the last 12 minutes, obviously people were quick to forget we were down to 10 men for the majority of the game,' said the Everton captain.
'Obviously the manager has to take some responsibility because that's his role but to the same extent, we're the people out on the pitch and we have to perform.'
'You can't throw all the blame the manager's way, there has to be a pretty even split between him and the players.
'I understand that people will do that, because that's the way football is.'
whiteshadow
Player Valuation: £25m
The Plotters will be annoyed to see the captain saying the players need to shoulder some of the blame. Too moderate for their liking I'd imagine.
Yes but he still blames Martinez for half of it so not exactly a endorsement of his methods
whiteshadow
Player Valuation: £25m
That's true, I don't think RM is as bad as some plotters want everyone to believe, at the same time I don't think he's anywhere near as good as Davek likes to make out either.
What I want is RM to learn from his mistakes. He's got it in him to be a great manager if he can find the balance. We can beat any team when we're set up well and the players are in form. I can't remember the last time I could say that about our team. For decades we've gone up against the big teams and bricked it and normally lost.
Hopefully the pressure he's had on him recently will make him take a look at himself objectively and try and be more dynamic and pro active with his tactics.
At the end of the day it is now up to him ,he must surely know now with a new owner he is not as fireproof as he was with Bill.Moshiri is no mug and will soon see through him and replace him if he has too.
This plotters and believers thing annoys me as I doubt there is a single fan out there who doesnt want him to succeed
whiteshadow
Player Valuation: £25m
Yeah, it's up to him. I hope he manages to stay for next season. I'm more patient than most but if the same kind of stuff happens next year I'll lose faith in him. I just hope he improves cos it's ace watching us play like we did against Chelsea.
Just our home form that's put a black mark against Martinez. We still have a team that is capable of beating anyone in this league home or away. We have a team that boasts some great youngsters and we have a team whose football is far better than we are used to. Consistency is the key and this will get better the more experience these young players get. Still think we need to approach games like the Chelsea game whereas we hassled them and closed down quickly not allowing them to pick killer passes too easily. We have to do that to every team we play. Far too often we have allowed teams time and space to easily exploit us....stop that and we will win more.
Unless his was the half that worked. And reading between the lines he's pretty much placing the player's blame on Mirallas.
I'd personally estimate it at thirty five per cent Super Kev, five per cent the fans so obsessed with him that they give endless stick to any player who is a threat to super Kev, five per cent Martinez for a poor sub, then a hefty forty per cent would be West Ham who should have stopped playing when they saw we were tired.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
The 'debate' about the manager sounds archaic to me now. It WAS a live issue, I suppose, for many fans and the hacks in the press looking to get a lynching up and running. However, Saturday's result, the securing of a Wembley game, and the real possibility of a cup final and then lifting a trophy, coupled with Kenwright's words post match, have incinerated any challenge to Martinez's status.
It's done and it's dusted. Two cup runs into the final stages and more than likely a top half finish is no basis to change a manager on. He'll be here for another season at least (and quite rightly so). Anyone rational sees that. If you think that's not so, then it's just blind hatred and wishful thinking.
It's done and it's dusted. Two cup runs into the final stages and more than likely a top half finish is no basis to change a manager on. He'll be here for another season at least (and quite rightly so). Anyone rational sees that. If you think that's not so, then it's just blind hatred and wishful thinking.
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