Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[BlueToff]

What I'm comparing is how much one manager gets from lesser resources to how much Martinez gets from greater resources. I think it's a fair point to make.

Martinez has under achieved. The questions then are do you think Martinez will over achieve next season and should he be given the chance to? My view would be no, yours I'm guessing is yes?

No mate my view is that he gets the rest of the season and part of next. If the improvements aren't there he goes. If they are he stays.

However, Leicester is freak.

Ranieri may have gone to any other club and have them mid-table.

I'm glad it's happened and he's come in and showed how good he can be, but it's an oddity.

 

[davek]

I agree that the attacking side of the game has showed an improvement this season. However you're making all sorts of justifications to explain why the points total should be higher. I disagree with that because over the course of 30 odd games you end up with what you deserve. Defending, fitness, tactical awareness of how to change games, team selection, ability to hold onto a lead they are all as important a part of football as attacking play. I don't think we've made any noticeable improvements in these areas this season.

The big issue has been defending leads. That has been appalling. But how do you pick the bones out of that? Jagielka, for instance, said yesterday that players and manager were culpable in those collapses: presumably that Martinez didn't shore up the team in the final stages and the players had no resolve to defend it when they were called on to do so.

You're right though: the table doesn't lie.

Let's see where we end up on that score at the season's end. If we're comfortable top half, then that, added to the more than acceptable cup runs, will represent a not half bad season. If we finish bottom half, Martinez will feel the microscope on him even more keenly next season.

 

[jceverton]

The big issue has been defending leads. That has been appalling. But how do you pick the bones out of that? Jagielka, for instance, said yesterday that players and manager were culpable in those collapses: presumably that Martinez didn't shore up the team in the final stages and the players had no resolve to defend it when they were called on to do so.

You're right though: the table doesn't lie.

Let's see where we end up on that score at the season's end. If we're comfortable top half, then that, added to the more than acceptable cup runs, will represent a not half bad season. If we finish bottom half, Martinez will feel the microscope on him even more keenly next season.

Dropping points from winning positions is a reoccurring theme under his management. My view on this is that it comes down to a couple of issues. Firstly fitness, I just don't think we are fit enough. Up To end of October we were 19 out of 20th in the average distance we covered as a team. That's picked up in the last few months when we are 10th. I think it was clear last season we weren't fit enough and that's carried on this season. This is backed up by Lukakus comments a few weeks back when he made the point that they were working harder in training. If you're not fit enough then you mentally find it more difficult to concentrate and that leads to goals being conceded. The number of goals conceded in the last 15 minutes of games isn't a coincidence.
Secondly there is a tactical element to this and having the ability to change in response to how the opposition plays and the player changes they make. I think Martinez is poor at this. He seems to be able to set his teams up well tactically from the off but he struggles in pressurised situations where you have to make quick evaluations during the end of the game.

 

[deipnosophist]

There's 10 League games to go this season. For R Martinez, our performance in them (results-wise) is important. However, I do not believe them to be critical (barring absolute disastrous results). I hold almost intractable misgivings about R Martinez as a manager of 90 minutes of football but I reckon he'll be at the helm for the start of next season. At Christmas this year, I'd expect a thorough review process to be undertaken based purely on where we are in the real League (i.e. not some alternative league concocted by R Martinez's diehard supporters) .

 

[davek]

Dropping points from winning positions is a reoccurring theme under his management. My view on this is that it comes down to a couple of issues. Firstly fitness, I just don't think we are fit enough. Up To end of October we were 19 out of 20th in the average distance we covered as a team. That's picked up in the last few months when we are 10th. I think it was clear last season we weren't fit enough and that's carried on this season. This is backed up by Lukakus comments a few weeks back when he made the point that they were working harder in training. If you're not fit enough then you mentally find it more difficult to concentrate and that leads to goals being conceded. The number of goals conceded in the last 15 minutes of games isn't a coincidence.

Hold on, two of the five late collapses we've had were in time added on to time added on! Not much of an explanation for those two. Also, the West Ham collapse came after playing with 10 men for a huge chunk of the game.

The fitness indicator you point to is bogus as a barometer for us, as we dont usually play a pressing game. Teams that do naturally clock more KM per match per player.

Secondly there is a tactical element to this and having the ability to change in response to how the opposition plays and the player changes they make. I think Martinez is poor at this. He seems to be able to set his teams up well tactically from the off but he struggles in pressurised situations where you have to make quick evaluations during the end of the game.

And yet that doesn't stack up historically. His first season here he was hailed for his astute subs during games. So it's not a matter of saying it's something missing from his arsenal.

 

[Zatara]

The big issue has been defending leads. That has been appalling. But how do you pick the bones out of that? Jagielka, for instance, said yesterday that players and manager were culpable in those collapses: presumably that Martinez didn't shore up the team in the final stages and the players had no resolve to defend it when they were called on to do so.

You're right though: the table doesn't lie.

Let's see where we end up on that score at the season's end. If we're comfortable top half, then that, added to the more than acceptable cup runs, will represent a not half bad season. If we finish bottom half, Martinez will feel the microscope on him even more keenly next season.

I would like to see where we stand in the wages table as thats usually a good barometer...then how we will stand there once Moyes deadwood is removed...

Id guess not far off our position. Perhaps lower.

 

[Ihaters]

I would like to see where we stand in the wages table as thats usually a good barometer...then how we will stand there once Moyes deadwood is removed...

Id guess not far off our position. Perhaps lower.

I just want to see us further up the actual table

 

[kithnou]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...berto-martinez-wants-everton-dynasty-11057321

Roberto Martinez wants Everton dynasty - just like Arsene Wenger at Arsenal

• 19:00, 17 MAR 2016
• BY PHIL KIRKBRIDE

But Blues boss admits long-term planning tough in modern era

Everton manager Roberto Martinez on the touchline at the Emirates Stadium
Roberto Martinez wants to build an Arsene Wenger-type dynasty at Everton - but admits it is out of his hands.

The Blues boss has a contract at Goodison until the summer of 2019 but he has grand plans the long-term future of the club.

Martinez, however, admits that whether he - or any other Premier League manager - could ever replicate Wenger’s near 20 years in charge of the Gunners depends on the nerve of a team’s owner.

Everton, who entertain Arsenal on Saturday, are entering a new era with the arrival of billionaire investor Farhad Moshiri and Martinez says with more money in the game than ever before, chairmen and owners will be under greater pressure to deliver results - and maybe make regular changes in the dug-out.

Wenger may have seen Arsenal knocked out of the Champions League but he believes his side have shown they can still fight for domestic success this season


“The focus now goes onto the owners, what is the plan and what is the strategy behind their football clubs,” Martinez said.

“Every manager goes through good and bad periods and it’s how the manager fits into that role of building a football club. I don’t think every manager knows how to build a football club, that’s the truth.

“There are managers who prefer to be head coaches, which is looking after the first-team and concentrating on winning or losing at the weekend.



“When you are a manager where you are looking at the well-being of the football club, managing assets, managing finances and investing in and developing young players, that is a very, very different situation.

“It is the owner who ultimately decides where the manager should be judged.

Farhad Moshiri poses for a photo at Goodison Park


“If that is just the result at the weekend or it is more about where the football club is going under his leadership.

“The modern times will make that very, very difficult and put a lot of pressure on owners about supporting managers for a long, long time like Arsene Wenger or Sir Alex Ferguson.

“More and more, that position as manager will become more like a head coach because people want instant success. And that investment that will be around will be the best investment ever, it is an historic moment, and every football club is going to have their own expectations because they will have the biggest spending they’ve ever had, attract the best players they ever had that demands wins.

“But it is still a competition of 20 teams and you cannot have 20 teams winning. That is the reality of the competition and the owners will make the difference, the owners with the stronger vision and the stability will get those rewards.”

Martinez has come under fierce criticism from sections of the supporters this season but guided the Blues into the FA Cup semi-finals with a win over Chelsea last weekend.

Everton manager Roberto Martinez (left) and Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger (right) before a match


And the Catalan insists he is only just getting started at Goodison.

“I enjoy building football clubs, I am not the type of manager that is trying to spend as much money as I can to try and have a good season and if something happens then it will be someone else’s problem,” he said.

“I never, ever enjoyed football in that manner. When I started at Swansea, I would make decisions that I saw flourish under different managers and you get the pride and you see football clubs growing all the time.

“At Wigan it was very, very similar and it was unfortunate that the work couldn’t be followed up but at Everton I am now looking after being in charge for 1,000 days and you can see where we have taken the team since we have arrived.

“You can judge many aspects of our football club growing, rather than just winning or losing on the football pitch, and that is what I enjoy.”

Martinez signed a four-year contract when he replaced David Moyes as manager in the summer of 2013, before agreeing a new five-year deal 12 months later.

Everton's Gerard Deulofeu celebrates scoring


So does the Everton manager, who will be entering his fourth term next season, think Champions League qualification can be achieved in that initial time frame?

“We achieved 72 points in the first season which, in the season after, would have been enough for the Champions League and in many of the last 10 years, it would’ve been enough,” he said.

“But the margins in the Premier League are becoming smaller and we are in a position where that has to be the ultimate aim and has to be our vision and we need to work towards that.

“It is not going to be easy because it has become a really, really demanding competition but, in the same way, at Everton we are now starting a new era and can approach it in a different way.

“Until now, we have been able to compete eye-to-eye with the top teams in the division with the way we play, although we haven’t been able to break into the top four, that shouldn’t stop us from having that aim in mind.”

 

[maccavennie]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...berto-martinez-wants-everton-dynasty-11057321

Roberto Martinez wants Everton dynasty - just like Arsene Wenger at Arsenal

• 19:00, 17 MAR 2016
• BY PHIL KIRKBRIDE

But Blues boss admits long-term planning tough in modern era

Everton manager Roberto Martinez on the touchline at the Emirates Stadium
Roberto Martinez wants to build an Arsene Wenger-type dynasty at Everton - but admits it is out of his hands.

The Blues boss has a contract at Goodison until the summer of 2019 but he has grand plans the long-term future of the club.

Martinez, however, admits that whether he - or any other Premier League manager - could ever replicate Wenger’s near 20 years in charge of the Gunners depends on the nerve of a team’s owner.

Everton, who entertain Arsenal on Saturday, are entering a new era with the arrival of billionaire investor Farhad Moshiri and Martinez says with more money in the game than ever before, chairmen and owners will be under greater pressure to deliver results - and maybe make regular changes in the dug-out.

Wenger may have seen Arsenal knocked out of the Champions League but he believes his side have shown they can still fight for domestic success this season


“The focus now goes onto the owners, what is the plan and what is the strategy behind their football clubs,” Martinez said.

“Every manager goes through good and bad periods and it’s how the manager fits into that role of building a football club. I don’t think every manager knows how to build a football club, that’s the truth.

“There are managers who prefer to be head coaches, which is looking after the first-team and concentrating on winning or losing at the weekend.



“When you are a manager where you are looking at the well-being of the football club, managing assets, managing finances and investing in and developing young players, that is a very, very different situation.

“It is the owner who ultimately decides where the manager should be judged.

Farhad Moshiri poses for a photo at Goodison Park


“If that is just the result at the weekend or it is more about where the football club is going under his leadership.

“The modern times will make that very, very difficult and put a lot of pressure on owners about supporting managers for a long, long time like Arsene Wenger or Sir Alex Ferguson.

“More and more, that position as manager will become more like a head coach because people want instant success. And that investment that will be around will be the best investment ever, it is an historic moment, and every football club is going to have their own expectations because they will have the biggest spending they’ve ever had, attract the best players they ever had that demands wins.

“But it is still a competition of 20 teams and you cannot have 20 teams winning. That is the reality of the competition and the owners will make the difference, the owners with the stronger vision and the stability will get those rewards.”

Martinez has come under fierce criticism from sections of the supporters this season but guided the Blues into the FA Cup semi-finals with a win over Chelsea last weekend.

Everton manager Roberto Martinez (left) and Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger (right) before a match


And the Catalan insists he is only just getting started at Goodison.

“I enjoy building football clubs, I am not the type of manager that is trying to spend as much money as I can to try and have a good season and if something happens then it will be someone else’s problem,” he said.

“I never, ever enjoyed football in that manner. When I started at Swansea, I would make decisions that I saw flourish under different managers and you get the pride and you see football clubs growing all the time.

“At Wigan it was very, very similar and it was unfortunate that the work couldn’t be followed up but at Everton I am now looking after being in charge for 1,000 days and you can see where we have taken the team since we have arrived.

“You can judge many aspects of our football club growing, rather than just winning or losing on the football pitch, and that is what I enjoy.”

Martinez signed a four-year contract when he replaced David Moyes as manager in the summer of 2013, before agreeing a new five-year deal 12 months later.

Everton's Gerard Deulofeu celebrates scoring


So does the Everton manager, who will be entering his fourth term next season, think Champions League qualification can be achieved in that initial time frame?

“We achieved 72 points in the first season which, in the season after, would have been enough for the Champions League and in many of the last 10 years, it would’ve been enough,” he said.

“But the margins in the Premier League are becoming smaller and we are in a position where that has to be the ultimate aim and has to be our vision and we need to work towards that.

“It is not going to be easy because it has become a really, really demanding competition but, in the same way, at Everton we are now starting a new era and can approach it in a different way.

“Until now, we have been able to compete eye-to-eye with the top teams in the division with the way we play, although we haven’t been able to break into the top four, that shouldn’t stop us from having that aim in mind.”

The last 2 paragraphs is like he's totally dismissed that Leicester have proved undoubtedly that the top can be got at. Done with basically sticking to a simple game plan where every player understand their role and they haven't exactly plundered millions upon millions to get there.

No excuses for any manager as far as I'm concerned not to be able to have a good crack at the top 4 with the amount of money now available to improve squads, unless they simply aren't good enough to manage a team to target the top 4 in the first place.

 

[bluewally]

The last 2 paragraphs is like he's totally dismissed that Leicester have proved undoubtedly that the top can be got at. Done with basically sticking to a simple game plan where every player understand their role and they haven't exactly plundered millions upon millions to get there.

No excuses for any manager as far as I'm concerned not to be able to have a good crack at the top 4 with the amount of money now available to improve squads, unless they simply aren't good enough to manage a team to target the top 4 in the first place.

So what happened to his promise of getting Everton into the CL. That was made long before the new investment.

He's just excuse after excuse.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

So what happened to his promise of getting Everton into the CL. That was made long before the new investment.

He's just excuse after excuse.

Wasn't it BK who came out and said Martinez will get us into the CL?

 

[bluewally]

Wasn't it BK who came out and said Martinez will get us into the CL?

BK "Roberto's first words were 'I'll get you in the Champions League'."

 

[BlueToff]

BK "Roberto's first words were 'I'll get you in the Champions League'."

Yes.

Did he say 'I'll get you into the Champions League by the third season...'?

 

[bluewally]

Yes.

Did he say 'I'll get you into the Champions League by the third season...'?

Well we're certainly not closer than before he arrived.

I don't think its too much of a stretch to assume when he signed a 4 year deal his statement would apply to the lifetime of that contract.

Do you really think we'll get it next year?

 

[BlueToff]

Well we're certainly not closer than before he arrived.

I don't think its too much of a stretch to assume when he signed a 4 year deal his statement would apply to the lifetime of that contract.

Do you really think we'll get it next year?

I'd say that we've shown more than enough quality at times this season to have got there this year. What's let us down has been our consistency and inability to not make the same mistakes every three or four games - and that is down to both the manager and the players.

If we've shown no signs of clear improvement by November this year, I think Martinez will be gone.

But he/the players have turned the attack round from last season and now he/the players will hopefully turn the defence round.

That's all that's stopped us from being able to compete this term. Last season it was defence and attack.