Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Caolam]

I don't believe Martinez is a good enough manager to build Everton and make them a team capable of challenging for the title. There is no doubt he has qualities, he can spot a player, he has a quality what makes people like him, he brings young players on.
I don't believe he is adaptable enough to change to meet different challenges, I don't believe he is tactically aware enough to make changes during games to get results. I think he is too wedded to his style of play and doesn't seem to consider the qualities, or short comings, of the individual players he uses in pursuit of that style.
On balance I think his minus points outweigh his plus points and that is what holds him back.

 

[Goat]

We have very little to gain by changing the manager at THIS point, so common sense would decree that we should all just wait till the end of the season and take stock at that point.

 

[lancs blue]

Martinez is just trying to protect what future he has at the club. Continuous substandard league performances will answer the question

 

[BlueToff]

Exactly. The only thing that has changed is that Martinez has had time to put his stamp on the team.

Outside of his ability to spot a player (which I have openly credited him for) I don't see the good things he's done to be honest.
He abandoned defence and focused on attack resulting in "entertaining" high scoring games.

He has in no way 'abandoned' the defence.

His problem is is that the defensive tactics he uses often aren't up to scratch.

We wouldn't have put in some of the defensive performances we have this season had he abandoned it completely.

 

[Goat]

We look a lot better at the back since Robles has come in, hes added some confidence to the defence, clearly we have still conceded some shocking goals, but lets blame tiredness for the West Am shambles. Trying my best not to sound like David here but our recent results have certainly improved, the West Brom game is the only 1 you can really shake your head at since Robles has come in and the signs are looking good.

Rom is in the form of his life, the boy Lennon is putting in a shift, Gaz Baz has been a rock that we sadly lose for the next 2, but hopefully its time for the greatest player football has seen to stake a claim and be all he can be.

The boy Barks has been a little off key the last few, but hes still racking up the assists and im sure its a minor blip.

Also without trying to sound like Zatman this Summer should be our busiest in a long, long time, we shed some much needed deadweight, we WILL have people sniffing round our crown jewels and im expecting a very healthy net spend.

10 games to go, Semi Final to look forward to, still a chance to salvage SOMETHING from the league season, mostly pride and a bucket ton of filthy Sky War Crimes money.

I dunno Roberto, I just dont know, convince me you utter clown, make me SOAK again.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

We have very little to gain by changing the manager at THIS point, so common sense would decree that we should all just wait till the end of the season and take stock at that point.

To be honest, it doesn't matter either way because he'll be here until the summer, even if we lose every single game from now until the end of the season.

I also doubt Moshiri's short term ambition. I don't think he'll be shaking things up any time soon. Martinez, I think, knows this - hence his recent media manipulation, citing Wenger etc.

We start the new season with Martinez. He's a lucky man for it, two successive league failings wouldn't be tolerated at most clubs.

 

[davek]

Don't think he'll get an extension mate - barring an FA Cup win - and even then I'd be surprised.

Maybe so. However, regardless of the league position, we shouldn't underestimate the branding exercise this manager has done with the club.

I'm sure the owners haven't lost sight of the fact that the British football industry readily identify Everton with an exciting brand of football, based around a core of excellent young talent who are coveted by all other clubs. That's a package that people in business can readily buy into...and is likely to have paid dividends already by helping persuade outsiders that their incoming investment is worthwhile, stadium in place or not.

A plan for longevity and the ambition to create a dynasty will appeal to a new major shareholder fresh out of involvement with Arsenal. That requires stability at all levels.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

He's under pressure now, genuine pressure I suspect.

His narrative has changed, this is no doubt attempting to build a defence for himself. Encouraging bigger picture and downplaying results, because he knows results wise, he's in trouble.


“The focus now goes onto the owners, what is the plan and what is the strategy behind their football clubs,” Martinez said.

“Every manager goes through good and bad periods and it’s how the manager fits into that role of building a football club. I don’t think every manager knows how to build a football club, that’s the truth.

“There are managers who prefer to be head coaches, which is looking after the first-team and concentrating on winning or losing at the weekend.

“When you are a manager where you are looking at the well-being of the football club, managing assets, managing finances and investing in and developing young players, that is a very, very different situation.

“It is the owner who ultimately decides where the manager should be judged.

“If that is just the result at the weekend or it is more about where the football club is going under his leadership.

“The modern times will make that very, very difficult and put a lot of pressure on owners about supporting managers for a long, long time like Arsene Wenger or Sir Alex Ferguson

"But it is still a competition of 20 teams and you cannot have 20 teams winning. That is the reality of the competition and the owners will make the difference, the owners with the stronger vision and the stability will get those rewards.”

“I enjoy building football clubs, I am not the type of manager that is trying to spend as much money as I can to try and have a good season and if something happens then it will be someone else’s problem,” he said.

“I never, ever enjoyed football in that manner. When I started at Swansea, I would make decisions that I saw flourish under different managers and you get the pride and you see football clubs growing all the time.

“At Wigan it was very, very similar and it was unfortunate that the work couldn’t be followed up but at Everton I am now looking after being in charge for 1,000 days and you can see where we have taken the team since we have arrived.

“You can judge many aspects of our football club growing, rather than just winning or losing on the football pitch, and that is what I enjoy.”

 

[davek]

He's under pressure now, genuine pressure I suspect.

His narrative has changed, this is no doubt attempting to build a defence for himself. Encouraging bigger picture and downplaying results, because he knows results wise, he's in trouble.


“The focus now goes onto the owners, what is the plan and what is the strategy behind their football clubs,” Martinez said.

“Every manager goes through good and bad periods and it’s how the manager fits into that role of building a football club. I don’t think every manager knows how to build a football club, that’s the truth.

“There are managers who prefer to be head coaches, which is looking after the first-team and concentrating on winning or losing at the weekend.

“When you are a manager where you are looking at the well-being of the football club, managing assets, managing finances and investing in and developing young players, that is a very, very different situation.

“It is the owner who ultimately decides where the manager should be judged.

“If that is just the result at the weekend or it is more about where the football club is going under his leadership.

“The modern times will make that very, very difficult and put a lot of pressure on owners about supporting managers for a long, long time like Arsene Wenger or Sir Alex Ferguson

"But it is still a competition of 20 teams and you cannot have 20 teams winning. That is the reality of the competition and the owners will make the difference, the owners with the stronger vision and the stability will get those rewards.”

“I enjoy building football clubs, I am not the type of manager that is trying to spend as much money as I can to try and have a good season and if something happens then it will be someone else’s problem,” he said.

“I never, ever enjoyed football in that manner. When I started at Swansea, I would make decisions that I saw flourish under different managers and you get the pride and you see football clubs growing all the time.

“At Wigan it was very, very similar and it was unfortunate that the work couldn’t be followed up but at Everton I am now looking after being in charge for 1,000 days and you can see where we have taken the team since we have arrived.

“You can judge many aspects of our football club growing, rather than just winning or losing on the football pitch, and that is what I enjoy.”

Yes, it is obvious Martinez is stressing performance and plan over results.

However, I dont think his target audience for stuff like that is the ownner. Why bother? If he feels he's on shaky ground with him or even under a bit of pressure, words in the press aren't cutting it.

No, the audience is the footy media and the fans they 'service'. He's created a bit of breathing room and good will with the last result in order to get his narrative front and centre and to create a heat shield with it from any (likely) near future questioning of his right to manage Everton.

He's a skilled operator and wont waste his time on trying to persuade hard nosed fellers like Moshiri that he's doing a good job if he's heard behind the scenes Moshiri thinks the reverse.

 

[Goat]

To be honest, it doesn't matter either way because he'll be here until the summer, even if we lose every single game from now until the end of the season.

I also doubt Moshiri's short term ambition. I don't think he'll be shaking things up any time soon. Martinez, I think, knows this - hence his recent media manipulation, citing Wenger etc.

We start the new season with Martinez. He's a lucky man for it, two successive league failings wouldn't be tolerated at most clubs.

Your probably right, but I was more about thinking about my POV and I know you were being flippant, but I think if we lost our last 10+1 games, he would be sacked.

But yeah, time will tell I suppose.

 

[Carlito]

at those quotes.

He's Michael Scott.

 

[Saint Domingo]

He's under pressure now, genuine pressure I suspect.

His narrative has changed, this is no doubt attempting to build a defence for himself. Encouraging bigger picture and downplaying results, because he knows results wise, he's in trouble.


“The focus now goes onto the owners, what is the plan and what is the strategy behind their football clubs,” Martinez said.

“Every manager goes through good and bad periods and it’s how the manager fits into that role of building a football club. I don’t think every manager knows how to build a football club, that’s the truth.

“There are managers who prefer to be head coaches, which is looking after the first-team and concentrating on winning or losing at the weekend.

“When you are a manager where you are looking at the well-being of the football club, managing assets, managing finances and investing in and developing young players, that is a very, very different situation.

“It is the owner who ultimately decides where the manager should be judged.

“If that is just the result at the weekend or it is more about where the football club is going under his leadership.

“The modern times will make that very, very difficult and put a lot of pressure on owners about supporting managers for a long, long time like Arsene Wenger or Sir Alex Ferguson

"But it is still a competition of 20 teams and you cannot have 20 teams winning. That is the reality of the competition and the owners will make the difference, the owners with the stronger vision and the stability will get those rewards.”

“I enjoy building football clubs, I am not the type of manager that is trying to spend as much money as I can to try and have a good season and if something happens then it will be someone else’s problem,” he said.

“I never, ever enjoyed football in that manner. When I started at Swansea, I would make decisions that I saw flourish under different managers and you get the pride and you see football clubs growing all the time.

“At Wigan it was very, very similar and it was unfortunate that the work couldn’t be followed up but at Everton I am now looking after being in charge for 1,000 days and you can see where we have taken the team since we have arrived.

“You can judge many aspects of our football club growing, rather than just winning or losing on the football pitch, and that is what I enjoy.”

That second bit you have in bold is precisely why continental teams split out the roles of head coach and director of football. Martinez has effectively been a brilliant director of football but a poor head coach. With the roles combined as manager though you get people who can only fulfill one of the roles. It seems to be Martinez's personal opinion that the director of football role is more important. Mourinho would take a different view and clearly it is something that has split the fan base.

 

[mkrudden]

Still can't understand anyone who says we've "failed" for the last two seasons.

Failed at developing our young players? Ie Lukaku into an all-round world class CF? Barkley into one of the most game-affecting players in the league?

Failed at bringing in new players, in line with the previous business model (young, raw players who need developing - see above)?

Failed at tying down our good players to long contracts? Players leave every football club, but if they leave us they never leave on the cheap

Failed at developing a style of play which is exciting, fresh, ambitious?

Failed to win trophies? So like every year since 1995 and under a variety of managers.

Failed to qualify for europe? Nope, we did that. In line to do it again.

Failed to show what the aim is to consistently achieve when his players are playing at their best? Nope. He's clearly shown what he can produce in his first season.

He has made mistakes. Not this summer gone, the summer before, he failed to replace the pace missing when Deulofeu left. Impact pace. Atsu obviously didn't come up trumps. Same with replacing Distin.

This year he kept too much faith in Howard who he was willing to return to form.

None of the mistakes he has made however, not even the supposed failure of last year's league standing nor the current position outweigh (or even come close) to the positives he has brought to the club and team. We all expect more because he has drilled it into us that we should expect more. A far cry from the 11 years previous and the knife/gun fights.

He deserves time and patience. Shame more aren't willing to give it him.

 

[Goat]

His main job is to win football matches, something he has failed to do more times than not.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

Still can't understand anyone who says we've "failed" for the last two seasons.

Failed at developing our young players? Ie Lukaku into an all-round world class CF? Barkley into one of the most game-affecting players in the league?

Failed at bringing in new players, in line with the previous business model (young, raw players who need developing - see above)?

Failed at tying down our good players to long contracts? Players leave every football club, but if they leave us they never leave on the cheap

Failed at developing a style of play which is exciting, fresh, ambitious?

Failed to win trophies? So like every year since 1995 and under a variety of managers.

Failed to qualify for europe? Nope, we did that. In line to do it again.

Failed to show what the aim is to consistently achieve when his players are playing at their best? Nope. He's clearly shown what he can produce in his first season.

He has made mistakes. Not this summer gone, the summer before, he failed to replace the pace missing when Deulofeu left. Impact pace. Atsu obviously didn't come up trumps. Same with replacing Distin.

This year he kept too much faith in Howard who he was willing to return to form.

None of the mistakes he has made however, not even the supposed failure of last year's league standing nor the current position outweigh (or even come close) to the positives he has brought to the club and team. We all expect more because he has drilled it into us that we should expect more. A far cry from the 11 years previous and the knife/gun fights.

He deserves time and patience. Shame more aren't willing to give it him.

Finished 11th last season. Currently 12th. That's failure.