Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[deipnosophist]

Neither I reckon. Because it was a cup again and it mattered more than the manager

true...nice reality check mate. I guess the 'politics' of EFC (aka R Martinez in/out) has distracted my passionate attentions.
You are right, of course.

 

[oldblue]

The season Moyes finished 17th then sold Rooney, we had that resilience and did currently what Leicester are doing (without a Vardy or Mahrez). Moyes admitted he learned from his mistakes, and probably became a little too pragmatic secondary to it, but it got league results. I was hoping this season would be like that, but alas it wasn't. I saw that Lukaku, Barkley, had worked on their game and improved it, and was hopeful, yet it hadn't materialised into a consistent team performance. If Bobby stays, and proves the majority wrong, theyd be happy to admit as much, but it's all words and hot air at the moment.
I was at the last Semi btw, we were boss, but the fans didn't cause Sylvans brain fart. We can be the edge needed for a performance, but ultimately professionals should perform regardless, and Baines said that much this weekend. Enjoy it if you go though, lovely stadium

Not sure I can go but hoping I can for the final which has completely jinxed us probably. Agree completely that it's all down to players focusing for ninety minutes. Seen great players freeze during semi finals. I think sometimes it's really about fans making their players feel under pressure. As great as our eighties team were it was the crowd that were man of the match against Bayern in that semi.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

We're the only ones witnessing the rage because it's localised on forums like these. I don't think it represents the wider picture.

That being said, we have no idea what this new owner of ours is like. I made a prediction yesterday that Martinez would be here next year regardless, but that was actually quite silly. We don't know this chap's values or what his aims are. Hopefully, this season ends with us lifting the cup and Martinez getting another go next year.

...that's the thing though mate, it genuinely isn't now. Some of the fairest, most impartial & patient match-going blues I have the pleasure to know have now turned or are deep within the process of changing their opinion on him. His reputation - as nice as he seems - is stacked against him, and that's based purely on how his teams perform. You know what you're gonna get with him because, simply, what you do get is all he knows...he admits himself that he's never gonna change, he knows no other way and, to me at least, that's poor management because he's not remotely...REMOTELY adaptable nor willing to embrace change (namely PLAN B)...

I think we've a fair idea what the new owner's like mate...he's a billionaire & an uber-savvy bizzzznizzzzz man... he won't settle for mediocrity in relation to his investments, it's that simple...

 

[BlueToff]

I love how some people on here think footballers are brain dead zombies who only follow instruction without questioning it.

No chance of any of them turning round after another loss and thinking 'something isn't right here?' and certainly no chance of anyone without actual loyalty to the club wanting to leave us any time soon, no transfer requests or anything.....

Is it not possible that the players don't back martinez but are also professional enough to turn up and try to have a good game each week? If they don't believe in the manager then they don't necessarily have to down tools over it. Personally i think the players like Rom are doing the come and get me plea to others, just not in the public eye.

A large share of the blame has to go to the players as well mate.

People don't like to hear it though

 

[oldblue]

true...nice reality check mate. I guess the 'politics' of EFC (aka R Martinez in/out) has distracted my passionate attentions.
You are right, of course.

We'll forget what Martinez looks like once it's under way. Maybe.

 

[BlueToff]

Everton 0 Man City 2 - 1 shot on target, 46% possession
Everton 0 Man United 3 - 3 shots on target 47% possession
Everton 1 Spurs 1 - 3 shots on target - 41% possession
Everton 0 Arsenal 2 - 2 shots on target -54% possession (mainly as Arsenal went into 3rd gear second half and let us keep the ball)

Those stats show it's far from a one off, despite our much vaunted and praised attack this year we managed 9 shots total in those 4 games and 1 goal total against Spurs, Arsenal, City and United at home

As a manager he is not good enough, the home record proves that, the league positions the last two seasons prove that, the fact we have recorde i believe 1 back to back win in the league over a year proves that, put Lukaku into any of the teams below us with the exception of Villa and that team would right now be above us in the league, we stick with him then this will become a club version of the England team with the golden generation - crap manager wasting the best years of talented players

The reason tactically we are stuck in a rut and he can't change the way we play to be more solid is just a very simple one really, he isn't an innovator - he is an immitator, he has seen someone elses tactics and based his entire management and tactical ideas upon that, the sad fact is though - the actual person he has copied has subsequently modified his tactics as teams learned how to counter it, martinez is trying to play pep season 1 football with worse players in a football world that now knows how to counter that style - but as he doesn't have a tactical brain he is left scratching his head and looking puzzled when it doesn't work

But surely that's not all down to RM either.

That's the players mate.

They have to go out and do the job on the pitch.

I'm not defending RM but the players are as culpable as he is at times.

 

[Nashtbs]

I've been quite staunch in my anti-martinez views since Hull last season, and my concerns that he wouldn't improve us this season and he hasn't. He's been lucky we've had favourable cup drawers, (barring Chelsea at home, which i thought was a terrible draw. How Lukaku completely made me look silly)

He's done well in bringing some top talents in to the club like Lukaku but he isn't getting the best out of the team as a whole.

He can't do it consistently in the league which is our bread and butter and therefore he needs to go, regardless of FA cup win or not.

 

[deipnosophist]

...that's the thing though mate, it genuinely isn't now. Some of the fairest, most impartial & patient match-going blues I have the pleasure to know have now turned or are deep within the process of changing their opinion on him. His reputation - as nice as he seems - is stacked against him, and that's based purely on how his teams perform. You know what you're gonna get with him because, simply, what you do get is all he knows...he admits himself that he's never gonna change, he knows no other way and, to me at least, that's poor management because he's not remotely...REMOTELY adaptable nor willing to embrace change (namely PLAN B)...

I think we've a fair idea what the new owner's like mate...he's a billionaire & an uber-savvy bizzzznizzzzz man... he won't settle for mediocrity in relation to his investments, it's that simple...

R Martinez credo: "My way, or the highway..."
Guess what Mr Martinez?...your way is the low way.

Please, please , tender your resignation.

 

[maccavennie]

A large share of the blame has to go to the players as well mate.

People don't like to hear it though

Your absolutely spot on there mate, no doubt in my mind that the players are to blame as well. Problem is ( and I've said this since Stoke City away last season which was a very similar performance to Saturdays) you can't sack 14 players on the spot, but you can sack the man who is supposed to oversee the players.

Every day the man is still in charge of Everton Football Club is a day too long from here on in imo mate. He's a lovely fella, but his excuses have worn too thin for me, I cringe listening to every post match interview he does as he tries to find a new way to blame a defeat on something other than the blatantly obvious.

 

[Ashtonian]

A large share of the blame has to go to the players as well mate.

People don't like to hear it though

but why is that? Why blame the players all the time?

This is a repeat of 12 months ago, where people genuinely believed it was the players fault that they got 25 yards from goal and passed it side wards every time they attacked.

If players balls up then yes blame the players, if they switch off or not track back or whatever else that is under their control then yes blame the players. At times this year you can blame a player here and there for something. But overall, you can't blame the players for where we are in the league at this stage, unless said players are actually not playing for their manager.

 

[ijjysmith]

but why is that? Why blame the players all the time?

This is a repeat of 12 months ago, where people genuinely believed it was the players fault that they got 25 yards from goal and passed it side wards every time they attacked.

If players balls up then yes blame the players, if they switch off or not track back or whatever else that is under their control then yes blame the players. At times this year you can blame a player here and there for something. But overall, you can't blame the players for where we are in the league at this stage, unless said players are actually not playing for their manager.

He's not solely saying blame the players though. Or saying solely blame the manager. Without any question our crapness is a mixture of the two.

 

[bluestevon]

But surely that's not all down to RM either.

That's the players mate.

They have to go out and do the job on the pitch.

I'm not defending RM but the players are as culpable as he is at times.

Ofc it isn't all down to the manager mate, but end of the day he picks the team, prepares the team and decides on how the team will play against the opponent, including any in game changes - all 4 of those games we never once looked like getting a win from the very start of the game and got outworked and outplayed throughout.

Motivation just doesn't seem to be a strong point of Martinez - and it is becoming more noticable as time goes on.

Also easier to change a manager than a team mate, end of the day to me it looks like the squad isn't playing for the manger they are just going through the motions - with an occasional good performance thrown in, seriously think the amount of collapses and bizarre substitutions has got the team to the point they have no confidence or belief in him anymore

 

[Ashtonian]

He's not solely saying blame the players though. Or saying solely blame the manager. Without any question our crapness is a mixture of the two.

but after two years mate, the blame the players excuse for poor form either tells us that its A) down to the manager or B) we have crap players. a run of games is different to two seasons of it, it#s hard to keep blaming the players for things if they are only following instructions given to them (or lack of).

compared to Jags for example ball watching and letting the striker behind him, 100% his fault., that is where the player blame is.

 

[bluestevon]

Your absolutely spot on there mate, no doubt in my mind that the players are to blame as well. Problem is ( and I've said this since Stoke City away last season which was a very similar performance to Saturdays) you can't sack 14 players on the spot, but you can sack the man who is supposed to oversee the players.

Every day the man is still in charge of Everton Football Club is a day too long from here on in imo mate. He's a lovely fella, but his excuses have worn too thin for me, I cringe listening to every post match interview he does as he tries to find a new way to blame a defeat on something other than the blatantly obvious.

It also only takes 2-3 players to lose confidence in the manager for the entire team to be effected badly as well mate, got my own feelings about at least 6-7 players who don't really believe in the manager right now

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

The team that is underperforming was not inherited from Moyes.

Enough of them were.

What's his excuse for sticking with howard for so long, then? Why is it osman was first off the bench for a good while when better players (some of RM's signings) were left on it - that's when osman wasn't starting games? Why has Galloway been benched to accommodate an underperforming Baines?

There are enough players in the first team to state that Martinez is underperforming with moyles' players. They used to be able to see out a match; now martinez wants all sorts of things to happen when the game's been more or less won, and as a result we draw or lose from winning positions because of his insistence we play far too open.

Just leave the players on the pitch to decide what's best once we're two goals to the good ffs.