Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[nsno-chris]

Just looking at the defence ONLY...

Coleman -- Frequently out of position
Jagielka - No leadership and has been saved by Mori
Mori -- If he cuts out basic errors our best defender
Stones - top notch but had a bad run of form
Baines -- See Coleman
Oviedo -- Ok all rounder

We looked more solid with Browning/Galloway at full back (obviously) and our game now isnt solely focused on attacking full backs...we need actual defenders who can pass the ball....we have Mori and Stones...

We need to improve here and make signings to fit the system.

So virtually the same players that were flawless in his first season have no become utter poop in your eyes, and thats the players fault and not the managers tactics.

Errrr ok...

And FYI, Stones' form is down to the managers instruction of possession. He's drilled it that much into him, he should have been coached in the art of defending first i.e. row z is an option

 

[D410]

Did,nt realise we had 2 week break from games.
Sack him now.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

On a separate note what did Deloufeu do?

He went from Bobby raving about him and having our most assists to sitting on the bench behind kone, niasse, cleverly and even Mirallas in the pecking order

he had Lennon scoring, assisting, defending and generally being Man of the Match in his position for quite a few weeks on the trot.

 

[nsno-chris]

It was actually to do with the EL IIRC mate.

He said he didn't want to push them too hard in pre-season due to most players being at the World Cup, and then we had to build up our match sharpness slowly as we had three games a week.

He actually admitted he got it wrong at the end of last season and said that the pre-season wasn't good enough.

This year we haven't looked anywhere near as unfit as some are pointing out.

Certain players have - but the likes of Lennon, Barkley, McCarthy, Coleman etc have looked fine.

Just glad someone else remebers it, thought I was going insane for a minute.....

 

[Zatara]

So virtually the same players that were flawless in his first season have no become utter poop in your eyes, and thats the players fault and not the managers tactics.

Errrr ok...

And FYI, Stones' form is down to the managers instruction of possession. He's drilled it that much into him, he should have been coached in the art of defending first i.e. row z is an option

Stones as a 21 year old was senior CB for alot of games with Jags out + was very good most of the season.

How many terrible games has he had do you think?

 

[bluewally]

he had Lennon scoring, assisting, defending and generally being Man of the Match in his position for quite a few weeks on the trot.

Surely he's still a better option on the left wing than Kone, Cleverly or the unproven Niasse

 

[Khalekan]

I would prefer to win the derby or at least not lose it. Last year was humiliating, they really could have had a hatfull of goals.
Martinez was non plussed, he just did not know what to do, no shutting up shop, parking the bus closing the game down, even losing with a bit of dignity 1 nil, but no his philosophy is simple and easy to play against, all our team was in their half and they just lobbed the ball and hit us on the break each and every time. Given another ten minutes they could of had 10! We were burnt out with endless passing, running and getting nowhere, His philosophy is so predictable and easy to counter yet he does not change it.

The talk sport interview he says " we were fearful" but when he came to us he said he " wanted us to play without fear" so 3 years later we are fearful of conceding 5 possibly 6 goals which is pretty understandable with his philosophy, the players know it does not work and are fed up with it, these players are not has beens looking for a late pay off to end their career aka Wigan and what he had there

Everyone can see his style does not suit, these players must be so frustrated. I hope we win the cup, the derby, and the next seven games, but we all know with Martinez we will encounter a few drubbings, not even a cup win should keep him at the helm, league form/position over 3 years show a rapid decline. I hope Moshiri cans him and gets Stubbs in until end of season

I was agreeing with all that up until you said fetch Stubbs in until the end of the season

 

[BlueToff]

Surely he's still a better option on the left wing than Kone, Cleverly or the unproven Niasse

He has only played Cleverley there of the players you mention while Del has not been starting.

Super-duper Kev is the other one who has played.

I would like to see Lennon left, Del right, though.

 

[nsno-chris]

Stones as a 21 year old was senior CB for alot of games with Jags out + was very good most of the season.

How many terrible games has he had do you think?

Stones was ace last year, he was a defender with skill who, at the right time, brough the ball out of defence. This year he's over playing the ball constantly and always looking for the pass.

Its irrelevant though, because Stones can be coached to do the basics right but still have that skill set to utilise, which is not happening

 

[DrEFC]

Just looking at the defence ONLY...

Coleman -- Frequently out of position
Jagielka - No leadership and has been saved by Mori
Mori -- If he cuts out basic errors our best defender
Stones - top notch but had a bad run of form
Baines -- See Coleman
Oviedo -- Ok all rounder

We looked more solid with Browning/Galloway at full back (obviously) and our game now isnt solely focused on attacking full backs...we need actual defenders who can pass the ball....we have Mori and Stones...

We need to improve here and make signings to fit the system.

Our most resolute performances have come with Jags at the back. You have some mad obsession with players under 25. If Martinez gets his way and replaces all of Moyes back 4 we will likely flirting with relegation. If Mori cuts out basic errors, if Stones cuts out basic errors. Do you honestly think he can coach a decent defence? I will conceed that Jagielka's distribution is poor, and doesn't fit into 'the system' but I have no faith in Martinez’s system.
Edit: v Arsenal we were caught cold twice due to Mori being out of position. Jags the Moyes fanboy elderly coward captain didn't shout at him *tongue in cheek*

 

[bluewally]

Stones was ace last year, he was a defender with skill who, at the right time, brough the ball out of defence. This year he's over playing the ball constantly and always looking for the pass.

Its irrelevant though, because Stones can be coached to do the basics right but still have that skill set to utilise, which is not happening

Eh you're wrong there, Stones as well as Barkley and Lukaku can't have played more than a handful of games in the previous 2 seasons.

If that were the case how could they be inexperienced like Bobby tells us.

Get your facts right chris

 

[DrEFC]

Can believers in Martinez’s philosophy show me one team who plays it from the back with success in the prem?

 

[Zatara]

Stones was ace last year, he was a defender with skill who, at the right time, brough the ball out of defence. This year he's over playing the ball constantly and always looking for the pass.

Its irrelevant though, because Stones can be coached to do the basics right but still have that skill set to utilise, which is not happening

But how many appalling games has he had this season though? 5 or 6 at worst right?

Same as Lukaku and Barkley and a host of other players at that age. i put it down to development, he'll come out of the poor patch a better player.

 

[bluewally]

Can believers in Martinez’s philosophy show me one team who plays it from the back with success in the prem?

The only flaw in your question is that many (not all) of the believers in Bobbyosophy feel that 12th and beating a few mickey mouse teams in a cup run is success.

 

[Ihaters]

I am questioning this now. Is it just us who think this?
The league table for almost 2 seasons doesn't back this up at all.

Maybe we are not as good as we think we are and this great squad that's been built is no better than a mid table squad.
Some great individuals but overall just an average team.

I can't think of a better squad we have had. I think Martinez must shoulder the responsibility of our league position. We have genuine quality all over the pitch and on the bench. When have we had that before?
We can have Mirallas, Besic, Deulofeu and one of our most expensive ever signings sat waiting to get games, whilst some genuinely exciting players go out and fail to win on a regular basis. We could have Ronaldo, Messi, Bale and Suarez but I suspect we would still lose plenty of games.
There is a massive problem, but its not the quality of the squad.