Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Always 100]

You've ignored the time element: he's been here a relatively short period by this club's standards (Walker aside). He's been here three seasons and can point to hitting targets in all three seasons:

Just because Moyes got 11 seasons to win F'all doesn't mean the next manager needs the same time period(or longer) to win F'all. Sick of EFC making do with second best.
Regardless of the cup outcome I don't think he's the man for us.
Players hold all the power,if they have lost confidence in the manager(he's gone IMO). Players get managers sacked by protesting on the pitch,not trying/leaking goals etc. Bad results/league position=new manager IMO.

 

[JonnyFitz]

Zero regard for defending, why is he still at the club? Our board seems to have a very obtuse disposition.......we'll never crack on with Martinez, never! His game management is atrocious.

The best managers HATE conceding goals.

 

[oldblue]

why is the concept of 'if we win/lose, we'll be in this position' so strange to you? it's a pretty common one among football fans mate

More the tone though isn't it. And no, I've not had a conversation like that with any fans at any point in the past.
Had ones where we've looked at all the possible permutations around staying up, getting into Europe or winning the league. Not taken on board a worst case scenario that's of little relevance and then decided it's reality and verbally beaten a manager and other fans with it

 

[Zatara]

Zero regard for defending, why is he still at the club? Our board seems to have a very obtuse disposition.......we'll never crack on with Martinez, never! His game management is atrocious.

The best managers HATE conceding goals.

Would you not consider Cruyff as having been a top manager then? As he has been quoted very similar to Martinez in terms of defending and scorelines...

 

[oldblue]

And some utter [Poor language removed]..for every Rom or Del..there is an Alcaraz and Kone..

For every Rom, Del, Galloway, Lennon, Barry, McCarthy, Besic, Robles. Really not a bad haul without spending too much we haven't got back in.
If you analysed any manager I'm pretty sure they are way short of 100% success in the market. But even so I'm sure the board would be calculating that he's almost certainly increased the value of the squad way beyond money spent.
I really don't think the transfer market is solid ground for sacking him.

 

[oldblue]

Usually u start rebuilding with the foundation...i.e. defence and not the other way round...

Maybe he didn't feel it needed rebuilding though in the short term when he came into the job. Would have assumed that was one area Moyes had left us strong in. I think it should be pretty clear now that we weren't in great shape with some players aging and a gap in experience below them.
I can understand why he might have felt other areas needed sorting first. Don't necessarily agree just don't think that maxim about defence is just automatically true.

 

[Zatara]

Why are we talking about 20 years? He inherited a squad from Moyes that averaged around 7th in the league and were regulars in Europe. He's single-handedly put paid to that, two consecutive years in the bottom half despite having the 'best squad' in 25 years. He's taken us massively backwards and needs to go asap.

Other than Bainss, Jagielka and Coleman who are still first choies...which players in that Moyes squad he inherited are top 7 level players now?

Answer = None.

 

[JonnyFitz]

Would you not consider Cruyff as having been a top manager then? As he has been quoted very similar to Martinez in terms of defending and scorelines...

No I don't - Good manager, not to be considered one of the best. 3/4 league titles (I think) with Barcelona of all teams. Didn't win the league with Ajax.

Lets not forget all the players he had at his disposal either.

Top player though

 

[roydo]

Other than Bainss, Jagielka and Coleman who are still first choies...which players in that Moyes squad he inherited are top 7 level players now?

Answer = None.

75% of our back 4 there.

 

[Zatara]

No I don't - Good manager, not to be considered one of the best. 3/4 league titles (I think) with Barcelona of all teams. Didn't win the league with Ajax.

Lets not forget all the players he had at his disposal either.

Top player though

He totally changed Barca style of play.
He moved on most of their squad in 1st two seasons
He stated he would rather win 5-4 than 1-0
He was slated by fans in first 2-3 seasons at Barca
Chairman vetoed board decision to fire him
Changed youth setup (la masia)..

Alot of similatities and won copa del rey then barca were amazing the following seasons...

 

[oldblue]

Other than Bainss, Jagielka and Coleman who are still first choies...which players in that Moyes squad he inherited are top 7 level players now?

Answer = None.

I definitely think it's worth putting this in the plus column. We needed Moyes stability and at times played great football, but something felt wrong for a couple of years and we were left without experience coming through.

 

[Zatara]

75% of our back 4 there.

And 8 new players in the side...so which of the players left behind are now still top 7 players?

Osman, Gibson, Distin ?

Martinez is rebuilding the squad from the tosh left behind.

 

[oldblue]

No I don't - Good manager, not to be considered one of the best. 3/4 league titles (I think) with Barcelona of all teams. Didn't win the league with Ajax.

Lets not forget all the players he had at his disposal either.

Top player though

Easy to forget that Barca weren't close to the force they are now. Other managers have benefited from his work. Not saying Martinez is even close to his quality but he's not a bad role model.

 

[Zatara]

I definitely think it's worth putting this in the plus column. We needed Moyes stability and at times played great football, but something felt wrong for a couple of years and we were left without experience coming through.

Moyes basically did a SAF and left us with a bunch of players who werent good enough and only able to play percentage football. If not for Martinez i dread to think where we would be now in terms of players...

Certainly Barkley and Stones wouldnt have been trusted so much and Lukaku and deulofeu wouldnt have signed.

 

[Zatara]

Easy to forget that Barca weren't close to the force they are now. Other managers have benefited from his work. Not saying Martinez is even close to his quality but he's not a bad role model.

Precisely. Its just the difference between a visionary (someone with a long term plan) and a results based manager (allardyce/pulis/mourinho) who plans year to year.

Striking comparisons with Cruyff, Wenger and Martinez actually. Personally i think the time to develop something like this is worth it.

If it fails or stagnates then you bring in someone to take the side to the next level.

Similar to Klopp and Tuchel i guess