Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[edge]

Getting towards crunch time for bobby to put up or f off, needs to win the cup nothing else can save him, even then I would get rid , but don't think the board would on the back of a final.
Get beat in the derby and the semi and he will be gone,I hope that dosnt happen.

 

[kithnou]

Getting towards crunch time for bobby to put up or f off, needs to win the cup nothing else can save him, even then I would get rid , but don't think the board would on the back of a final.
Get beat in the derby and the semi and he will be gone,I hope that dosnt happen.

The irony of your post full of contradictions there ...in this of all threads mate

 

[mkrudden]

Surely @mkrudden hasn't turned?

I'm actually in the boat that I think he may be gone come summer. That Arsenal defeat seems to have totally swayed the tide now.

It's his own fault, at the end of the day, though as I've said time and time again the players also share the blame.

I think Bobby could be a very good manager, but his stubbornness may be his downfall at a 'big' club.

This season is far from the unqualified failure that many are saying it is, however, though a lot rests on the semi-final - and it's a sad incitement of the manager that his job here may well rest on that one game...

Absolutely have not turned mate. I refuse to judge him with heightened expectations until he has had the money to spend to warrant such.
This season has absolutely not been a write off.
We've seen Ross Barkley develop his game, thanks largely to the manager, to a new level altogether.
Same with Lukaku. And sure, the latter may go but will do so for top money and profit which is exactly what the previous model intended - buy youngsters with world class potential, develop them, sell the ones that want to go for huge money and replace them with more proven quality. We will develop slowly, sure, but it's the only way a skint club can prevail - via developing players and sales.

He was doing this fine. League positions not good enough but an understandable consequence.

Had we not had the cash injection, id have given him another 12 months minimum. If he's given the dough speculated this summer, he has to bring in quality and he has to accelerate the process. I'd thus be reviewing his position at Christmas before the January market opens.

I won't be swayed on this, despite whatever Orly likes and what happened to Villa.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

He was doing this fine. League positions not good enough but an understandable consequence.

An understandable consequence of what?

 

[AndyC]

@BlueToff said...

"This season is far from the unqualified failure that many are saying it is, however, though a lot rests on the semi-final - and it's a sad incitement of the manager that his job here may well rest on that one game..."

Personally, I think that unless we at least reach the cup final, then the season will be considered a failure.

This is a talented squad and at times has been exhilarating to watch (first half away at Norwich for example), but and it sadly is a big but, far too many times we have completely failed to capitalise on chances to win games and put a decent run of results together.

Hence we have a free scoring centre forward, goals from midfield (RB & AL) and currently sit 12th in a league table when we should at least be capable of being in the top 6.

For me, the manager and his potential long-term future at this club depends not only upon victories in the semi and the final, but not losing across the park as well as let's be honest and taking one-eyed blue bias out of it, this has to be the worst RS team I can remember... and I also think that the manner of the performances in every game have to be taken into account... This team needs to show what it is really capable of !!

This club needs to be ruthless on the pitch, no more mr.nice guy... if the opposition are there to be thrashed, then they need to be thrashed.

Even this season, we have had the chance win by big, big margins and we simply haven't.

We beat Slumberland 6-2 and it could and should gave been by more; we put four past a simply woeful Aston Vanilla when it could and should have been way more.

We've let teams back in when they should have been dead and buried... Norwich and Bournemouth away are two examples.

And worst of all, we've rolled over and let teams walk away from Goodison - and I'm not sure which was the worst.

His first season, up to the tonking we got across the park, was largely a joy to watch and was a breath of fresh air.
Last season was turgid beyond belief.
Lose to the RS, fail to win in the semi and anything less than ten points from the remaining league games and I'm afraid that despite all his progressive Barca-esque ideals, surely even BK would have to re-think the managers position.

 

[sixtynineseventy]

I think you are too conveniently forgetting he got Wigan the Pyrrhic Cup... and Everton a 5th (with record points). Nobody in Everton's recent history has bettered that 5th place...except for Moyes...who got a 4th; but he only got 61 points to attain that position, so it's not as good.

That was then... this is now.. worst home record in a million years... consistently losing leads and wallowing in the bottom half of the league. 5th place was clearly the exception and not the rule and at the time the team had the defensive structure in place from the previous manager (which has been well and truly dismantled over the last two seasons). The norm for his teams is defensive inadequacy and the fact that individuals have improved counts for nothing when you are rubbing shoulders with Bournemouth and West Brom.

 

[edge]

The irony of your post full of contradictions there ...in this of all threads mate

Even as much as I want him gone I dont want us ever to get beat, even if the end result is he gets a bit more time before he is gone I want a cup win

 

[Ihaters]

@BlueToff said...

"This season is far from the unqualified failure that many are saying it is, however, though a lot rests on the semi-final - and it's a sad incitement of the manager that his job here may well rest on that one game..."

Personally, I think that unless we at least reach the cup final, then the season will be considered a failure.

This is a talented squad and at times has been exhilarating to watch (first half away at Norwich for example), but and it sadly is a big but, far too many times we have completely failed to capitalise on chances to win games and put a decent run of results together.

Hence we have a free scoring centre forward, goals from midfield (RB & AL) and currently sit 12th in a league table when we should at least be capable of being in the top 6.

For me, the manager and his potential long-term future at this club depends not only upon victories in the semi and the final, but not losing across the park as well as let's be honest and taking one-eyed blue bias out of it, this has to be the worst RS team I can remember... and I also think that the manner of the performances in every game have to be taken into account... This team needs to show what it is really capable of !!

This club needs to be ruthless on the pitch, no more mr.nice guy... if the opposition are there to be thrashed, then they need to be thrashed.

Even this season, we have had the chance win by big, big margins and we simply haven't.

We beat Slumberland 6-2 and it could and should gave been by more; we put four past a simply woeful Aston Vanilla when it could and should have been way more.

We've let teams back in when they should have been dead and buried... Norwich and Bournemouth away are two examples.

And worst of all, we've rolled over and let teams walk away from Goodison - and I'm not sure which was the worst.

His first season, up to the tonking we got across the park, was largely a joy to watch and was a breath of fresh air.
Last season was turgid beyond belief.
Lose to the RS, fail to win in the semi and anything less than ten points from the remaining league games and I'm afraid that despite all his progressive Barca-esque ideals, surely even BK would have to re-think the managers position.

To be honest, I still much much much prefer the football we play now to what we played that first season, which was dull as hell for me.
This play at least has some excitement to it, even though we know the result will be a defeat or a draw and that in terms of league results they are largely meaningless now thanks to such a poor showing previously.

 

[Ashtonian]

The likelihood has increased.

Sack martinez, get koeman in, guarantee transfer funds and 100 % of a player sale (lukaku most probably) then tell him he has the money, to and sign higher quality players than he was allowed at Southampton.

We get a defensively solid team, knows how to get results in this league with a worse team and with more money available and full say on transfers he can build the team he wants. Will still develop youth at the club and we have a small shout of actually getting somewhere

 

[malcson]

For me the reason I have lost belief in Martinez is to do with lack of progress. If we had missed out on Europe yet finished very close and played consistently well, it would have been disappointing but still a platform from which to kick on next season. We have a talented squad of his own making coached to play the way he wants to play and it has not moved on (in many ways it feels like we have gone backwards when we consider we have not had UEFA games this season).

The final nail for me is that Martinez does not seem to recognise this, repeating a belief that if we just stick with his 'ethos'/ 'method'/ 'style' then eventually all will come good. It's as though he is waiting for the magic formula to take effect rather than trying to change the formula.

 

[Ashtonian]

For me the reason I have lost belief in Martinez is to do with lack of progress. If we had missed out on Europe yet finished very close and played consistently well, it would have been disappointing but still a platform from which to kick on next season. We have a talented squad of his own making coached to play the way he wants to play and it has not moved on (in many ways it feels like we have gone backwards when we consider we have not had UEFA games this season).

The final nail for me is that Martinez does not seem to recognise this, repeating a belief that if we just stick with his 'ethos'/ 'method'/ 'style' then eventually all will come good. It's as though he is waiting for the magic formula to take effect rather than trying to change the formula.

Its not said often enough but have you noticed that despite the tactics not changing , when it doesn't go to plan then there us always a reason or excuse or someone to blame?

 

[malcson]

Its not said often enough but have you noticed that despite the tactics not changing , when it doesn't go to plan then there us always a reason or excuse or someone to blame?

That's exactly what I mean, the amount of times he has put it down to being "unlucky" is to quote the man himself "incrrrediible!" In other words he has got everything right, there's no need to change or adapt just wait for our luck to kick in.

 

[vagant59]

I think you are too conveniently forgetting he got Wigan the Pyrrhic Cup... and Everton a 5th (with record points). Nobody in Everton's recent history has bettered that 5th place...except for Moyes...who got a 4th; but he only got 61 points to attain that position, so it's not as good.

A season should not be judged on the points total as that will depend on the overall competiveness of the league. It is the position that you attain in a competitive league that counts. However 72 points was a very good effort, unfortunately not quite good enough

 

[Toffeeslam]

Its not said often enough but have you noticed that despite the tactics not changing , when it doesn't go to plan then there us always a reason or excuse or someone to blame?

Yep, for the away games its the ref, linesman or the incredible phenomenal character

For the home games its the crowd the ref and the press who are creating the crisis and that if we want success we have to take the pain.

What success is he talking about then, Promotion from league one to the championship or sommit ?

I see only pain with Martinez short medium or long term

 

[willo30]

A season should not be judged on the points total as that will depend on the overall competiveness of the league. It is the position that you attain in a competitive league that counts. However 72 points was a very good effort, unfortunately not quite good enough

I've said all along for me to change my stance on him he needs to be hitting 60 points. Forget the 72 and the 47. He inherited a 60 points a season team and my expectation is for him to at least get us back to there.

Whether 60 points gets us 5th or 9th is irrelevant to me at this stage. Yes 8th/9th would still be a poor showing and that would be because other have improved more than us but would not show us as moving backwards. Falling behind yes but not going backwards.