Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[bluewally]

Just read the Lukaku article on Sky.

There is no hiding place any more for Roberto, the media are onto him. He's been rumbled for our league position and more obviously for his win rate and inability to get the team to string some results together.

Looks like the writing is on the wall unless he wins the cup.

I wonder will the Sky reporters be instructed to raise in the pre and post match interviews on Sunday

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

Just read the Lukaku article on Sky.

There is no hiding place any more for Roberto, the media are onto him. He's been rumbled for our league position and more obviously for his win rate and inability to get the team to string some results together.

Looks like the writing is on the wall unless he wins the cup.

They're still going very, very easy on him. If this was Liverpool or Spurs they would be hounding them out of the club.

 

[Titus Bramble]

Adding to what I said a few pages back, I do think there is a very good manager in there somewhere and I think we're close to getting things to 'click'. Unfortunately for whatever reason he hasn't quite managed it the last couple of seasons.

I'd be interested to see how he spends our (hopefully) inflating transfer budget if he hangs onto his job.

 

[willo30]

They're still going very, very easy on him. If this was Liverpool or Spurs they would be hounding them out of the club.

The media only pipe up when we are playing one of their darlings. Before the Chelsea game they did it, they are doing it again coming up to the United game and they will be all over it again before the derby. The rest of the time they couldn't give a toss what happens with us.

 

[McBain]

Sticking with a manager is virtuous, it is ridiculous how quickly some clubs sack their manager.

But there reaches a point when it is right to move on. Obviously you don't feel that we have reached that point yet. From you forum posts, I get the impression (I may be wrong) that you would only relieve Roberto of his duties if we got dragged in a relegation battle, a genuine threat that we go down.

But if Moshiri has any ambition for the club, surely his target will be more than avoiding a relegation battle. Surely, if he is going to invest in the club and wants us to progress he will want the club to be in the top half minimum. Can you see the club massively backing Martinez in the summer with no pressure to finish in the top 7?

I mean, I can't think of an example of an investor who has come in, invested and been happy to stick with the manager regardless of where they finish in the league.

Even if we win the FA Cup but end up taking this seasons league form into next season, can you really see the club giving him the whole season? If the club were bottom half at Christmas and well of the pace, would you be surprised if the club parted company with him?

Because the way I see it, you would make no managerial change, even if our current league form continued indefinitely. Even if are in the same position this time next season, with just four home wins, after he has spent big in the summer you would still be against a change in the manager. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Some good points there @davek which funnily enough you've not answered.

Standing by.

 

[bluestevon]

Points are irrelevant compared to league position. The league's strength changes every year. The dominance of the top teams fluctuates, an influx of money can shake up proceedings, and at the very least 3 teams are relegated and 3 new teams appear in the division.

Getting over 70 odd points was great but if 4 teams did better than that, then 04/05 was a more successful season as only 3 teams bettered that. Do you think anyone cares how many points you get if you win the title? All that matters is that you're at the top of the pile.

All in all though, comparisons with 04/05 are damning to Martinez whatever the context. This is because we achieved that with mostly rubbish players. It was our Leicester moment, showing that the true mark of a team is how they play together and how they hold their nerve, not the hypothetical valuation of their best XI. With the quality we have now, even a modicum of the steel we had back then would see us in the top 4 easily. But I don't believe we'll ever see that resilience under Martinez. That's why I want him gone.

and did so in 2004 whilst losing half way through the season probably at the time our most influential player in that team, at the time he left we where on 43 points after the first 22 games (2 points per game), rest of the season we arened 18 points in the next 16 games (1.1 per game), not too much of a speculation to suggest if he had stayed all season then this 72 points total would have been possibly broken by that 2004/2005 team already.

At the time Gravesen left 22 games into the season we where on track to record a 74-75 point season as it happens, Take Gareth Barry out of that Martinez team 22 games in and can guarantee we would have fell a long way short of 72 points - doubt we'd have hit the 61 of the 2004/05 season actually

 

[bluestevon]

Points are irrelevant compared to league position. The league's strength changes every year. The dominance of the top teams fluctuates, an influx of money can shake up proceedings, and at the very least 3 teams are relegated and 3 new teams appear in the division.

Getting over 70 odd points was great but if 4 teams did better than that, then 04/05 was a more successful season as only 3 teams bettered that. Do you think anyone cares how many points you get if you win the title? All that matters is that you're at the top of the pile.

All in all though, comparisons with 04/05 are damning to Martinez whatever the context. This is because we achieved that with mostly rubbish players. It was our Leicester moment, showing that the true mark of a team is how they play together and how they hold their nerve, not the hypothetical valuation of their best XI. With the quality we have now, even a modicum of the steel we had back then would see us in the top 4 easily. But I don't believe we'll ever see that resilience under Martinez. That's why I want him gone.

and did so in 2004 whilst losing half way through the season probably at the time our most influential player in that team, at the time he left we where on 43 points after the first 22 games (2 points per game), rest of the season we arened 18 points in the next 16 games (1.1 per game), not too much of a speculation to suggest if he had stayed all season then this 72 points total would have been possibly broken by that 2004/2005 team already.

At the time Gravesen left 22 games into the season we where on track to record a 74-75 point season as it happens, Take Gareth Barry out of that Martinez team 22 games in and can guarantee we would have fell a long way short of 72 points - doubt we'd have hit the 61 of the 2004/05 season actually

 

[Thomasc]

They're still going very, very easy on him. If this was Liverpool or Spurs they would be hounding them out of the club.

They have had bigger fish to fry with the Leicester and Spurs stories. Merson, as annoying as he is has been onto Martinez for a while now, as has Collymore.

 

[Omarza]

Jagilelka has been lambasted by me because of his lack of leadership and organising qualities, not because of his own game. Just a major point you completely missed out there in your rush to see a contradiction that wan't there. And so what Jagielka and Stones were in the team early on; my point was that a flatter back four and less adventurous FBs was the clue to our very decent early season form. And, btw, you're not suggesting are you that Stones wasn't correctly left out for his season turning into piss?

You're countering of my point regarding personnel operating in the back four up to the derby is a fair one: I'd said the three I mentioned had played together in some permutation in all 8 games. They hadn't. So I take that back. It was three, so a minority. What was a feature of the period up to the derby, however, was the amount of game time Galloway, Browning and to a lesser extent Oviedo got in that period. Also we had Funes Mori stepping into Coleman's position on one occasion. We cant do without that. If there's one thing that was demonstrated in that period is that we don't need the Coleman/Baines FB tandem to get results.

I am slightly confused here. I see that the lack of leadership is mentioned and blamed on Jagielka. I also see references on how wonderful our team did 2 seasons ago with the 75 points (a new Everton record in the PL)...and how Martinez deserves praise for that season for achieving that. Yet no praise for our club captain that season and Jagielka is the main reason we are struggling due to lack of leadership skills? Am I missing something here or weren't Jagielka our captain in that season? Weren't we the team with the 3rd best defence that season in the league under the same captain. The reason I ask is because I am scratching my head on how the same captain of 2013-2014 all of a sudden have no leadership skills.

I might be wrong but to me it seems our biggest problem is not really tactics or the way we play etc. I honestly think the players are not fit and that is the reason that we concede so many goals towards the end of the game. When one gets tired one also loses concentration which leads to errors etc. Yes there are many other factors i know. To the best of my knowledge and I stand to be corrected...we lost some key staff members all related to physio, conditioning and performance coaching. I it coincidence that we have lost key staff members in that department. I will mention 2 of them below which I think had an impact on Everton.

Steve Tashjian left at the end of the 2013-2014 season. He was a fitness coach specializing in conditioning and performance, as some would say getting the best out of players. As I also understand he was key in planning our preseason preparations as well. 2014-2015 in my opinion we looked terrible in preseason...unfit, unprepared etc. One of the main reasons I think we had a disastrous season regardless of the World Cup excuses

Danny Donachie resigned and left at the end of December 2014. He was the head of medical services at Everton and during the Moyes era he was credited with playing a major part in getting Everton to perform. Apparently he resigned due to disagreement with Martinez on how players fitness/rehabilitation should be treated.

Once again...above is just an opinion of mine but I do think the problem is not lying at a lack of leadership from our captain.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

Adding to what I said a few pages back, I do think there is a very good manager in there somewhere and I think we're close to getting things to 'click'. Unfortunately for whatever reason he hasn't quite managed it the last couple of seasons.

I'd be interested to see how he spends our (hopefully) inflating transfer budget if he hangs onto his job.

....it's because he hasn't quite 'managed', that's why. The answer lies within the sentence...

 

[Prevenger17]

@Prevenger17 and @mkrudden along with @paulbefc an @Moomin possibly @Titus Bramble

I think @BlueToff is done with him, though. You're only a couple short of a cult xi

Slightly misleading, this shortlist of loyal people. I think there's a lot more, at least willing to let him see out the season, and I guarantee their long term outlook on Martinez is very much dependent on our remaining two games in the FA Cup. They might shout OUT after every loss but, for all intents and purposes, they are sitting on the fence. I think you and I even fall into this category in some respect

 

[mkrudden]

Slightly misleading, this shortlist of loyal people. I think there's a lot more, at least willing to let him see out the season, and I guarantee their long term outlook on Martinez is very much dependent on our remaining two games in the FA Cup. They might shout OUT after every loss but, for all intents and purposes, they are sitting on the fence. I think you and I even fall into this category in some respect

Weird isn't it, because we don't grab the pitch forks after every loss it is us that lack rationale.

 

[McBain]

Slightly misleading, this shortlist of loyal people. I think there's a lot more, at least willing to let him see out the season, and I guarantee their long term outlook on Martinez is very much dependent on our remaining two games in the FA Cup. They might shout OUT after every loss but, for all intents and purposes, they are sitting on the fence. I think you and I even fall into this category in some respect

Dave's PMing masses. Hidden in the shadows. The Anti Hoofball League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

 

[davek]

"With a run to the semi-finals of the Capital One Cup under their belt and a final-four clash in the FA Cup to come, the season has been far from a failure."

Exactly right. And what the rest of the industry sees.

 

[bluewally]

Weird isn't it, because we don't grab the pitch forks after every loss it is us that lack rationale.

But you do grab them after each win