Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[GwladysBlue]

If Martinez was currently on the job market - how many of the clubs currently in the Top 10 in the league would he get a realistic sniff at taking over if they were / are in the market?

Leicester - very much doubt it.
Spurs - No chance
Arsenal - No chance
City - lol
West Ham - not a prayer
United - nope
Southampton - doubt it
Stoke - can't see it, but lets' give him the benefit of a possible.
RS - one Brendan Rodgers was enough
Chelsea - haha, nope.

That's the top 10 chaps i.e. the sides that we're looking to catch and over take.

Bobby would maybe get a sniff at one or possibly Being generous) two of them. The rest wouldn't give him the time of day.

What does that tell you?

Neither would the bottom half clubs, his football is suicide.

 

[willo30]

I've been asked this a million times. No.

But we're not going to get relegated. There's a lot of people who laugh at Dave when he posits that 5th is about as good as 15th. In my mind, he's spot on. We don't win anything coming 5th. All 5th represents is that we put a good few wins together and people went home from matchday happier more often than not. The general mood is better, but what have we achieved? The square root of eff all. It seems that a lot of people differ with me on this, but I would trade in 5th place for a trophy every day of the week, without question.

But don't you want to see the club move forward? If your starting point is 5th and you expect better then why settle for 11th/12th. I don't see how not getting relegated is moving forward.

Hypothetical situation - Lose the derby and the semi and this place is going to melt. Win them both and my situation doesn't change. I look at the bigger picture.

 

[Prevenger17]

There's about £20, 000, 000 of difference between 5th and 15th.

I couldn't care less. I want Everton to win a trophy, not money

 

[FisherEFC]

So your conclusion is not to try and see what Martinez could do with that extra cash that's (apparently) coming, regardless of how successful he's been in the transfer market thus far, and hand it to someone else who may or may not make a success of it?

The only appropriate way forward would be to let Martinez continue this squad strengthening and see how he can utilise it. If he cant, then he cant and you go from there.

Any other approach is ludicrous and fraught with difficulty.

If I saw evidence of some progress I would be happy mate but he's criminally underachieved for 2 straight season's with this team, stick Lukaku In Stoke or Southampton heck any side around us they would be gunning for top 6 at minimum, that's the crux of it for me it's his results over 2 seasons that raise massive doubts about him.

Teams like Utd due to their stature could in essence give a manager like LVG time as they have the global prestige/ "name" and finance to bring in the best players regardless. Whereas if we give this guy 5 seasons and it results in our best players all moved on and us languishing in the bottom half, it's not quite as easy for us to recover other than going for a Moyes type "build em up" manager which we can all agree we don't want again.

I think if he wins the cup he'll certainly be given at least another season (not that I agree with that) but our club wouldn't sack someone who's just lifted silverware. Although I honestly can't see him here in 2 seasons time if Moshiri has any ambition about him/Roberto pulls a rabbit out his arse and has us performing again in the league.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

I couldn't care less. I want Everton to win a trophy, not money

Another example of 'either/or'.

That's what it's come down to under martinez, it seems

 

[bluewally]

I couldn't care less. I want Everton to win a trophy, not money

It's a short term view though

More money, better players, more trophies

 

[ianefc]

"With a run to the semi-finals of the Capital One Cup under their belt and a final-four clash in the FA Cup to come, the season has been far from a failure."

Exactly right. And what the rest of the industry sees.

Not being funny Dave but haven't you and I discussed this at length about numerous media personalities calling what the VAST majority of Evertonians now see, that's this season hasn't bed good enough. Yet you pick out one paragraph.

Just for those that haven't read it, here is the top 5 paragraphs.

With Romelu Lukaku eyeing a move to a Champions League club, Roberto Martinez and underachieving Everton have problems...

Lukaku has made plenty of headlines this season. But his well-publicised quotes about wanting to play in the Champions League next season won't have pleased Everton boss Martinez during the international break.


Lukaku Everton future in doubt
Romelu Lukaku has said he wants Champions League football

Lukaku is unlikely to feature in Europe's elite club competition with Everton any time soon. Martinez's side are down in the bottom half of the Premier League table, 13 points off fourth.

A late-season surge towards European qualification doesn't seem to be on the cards, either - they've managed just four wins in their last 16 league games.
....….....................
It's hardly a glowing report that reflects favourably on our floundering leader. Good attempt at media spin/propaganda

But ultimately it's another failure, and another one added to the growing list of people starting to see what's glaringly obvious.

X

 

[davek]

Since you have such a high respect for that article let's take some more

"But Everton's worrying league form raises questions over whether the squad and Martinez should be doing better, given the talent they have at their disposal.

"In the league they're underachieving," says former Everton striker Tony Cottee. "They should be where West Ham and Manchester United are, looking to push into the top four.

"For Everton to finish in the bottom half of the Premier League - especially when it has been such an open division this season, with all of the big guns misfiring - would be more than disappointing.

"It's a serious problem. You can't keep saying 'oh well, we'll get it right next year'. They need to start getting it right now.""

Oh my, "worrying league form", "more than disappointing", "serious problem", isn't that what every anti Martinez poster has been saying.

Keep calling it fume. It's the truth and it's the industry perception.

I noted the tenor of the rest of the article in that post of mine you quoted. Which makes that ^^^ superfluous.

 

[davek]

When I was looking forward to this season, my dreams didn't include taking solace in the fact that we had games in hand on WBA and Bournemouth. I thought we might be competing at a slightly higher level.

...did it include going to Wembley?

 

[Ihaters]

I've been asked this a million times. No.

But we're not going to get relegated. There's a lot of people who laugh at Dave when he posits that 5th is about as good as 15th. In my mind, he's spot on. We don't win anything coming 5th. All 5th represents is that we put a good few wins together and people went home from matchday happier more often than not. The general mood is better, but what have we achieved? The square root of eff all. It seems that a lot of people differ with me on this, but I would trade in 5th place for a trophy every day of the week, without question.

Would you trade 2nd place for an FA cup? Above still applies. You want to realistically compare the least of success to the heights of failure, this is a closer comparison.

I'd love a cup, don't see why it would interfere with our league though, we got to a final and finished 5th in the league in the league previously and I think played in Europe in the same season, with a team built on the sort of funds you would happily throw away because you feel there is no difference between 5th and 15th.

I'd rather we improved than became a lower end of the table team. The higher you are, the more varied the player you can choose from, poaching from Swansea and the likes, a season or two more of this and they will be poaching from us.

I am amazed people are basically saying they would be happy returning to the 90's with its one cup win and a just couple of spells finishing in the top half. I thought Moyes had dragged us out of that, if Martinez is not careful, he will be putting us right back in there again.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

It's a short term view though

More money, better players, more trophies

More confidence throughout the side, more arses on seats, more worldwide appeal & coverage etc etc

And more than just being 'The entertainers'...

 

[davek]

That 7th place point you make is what your missing in the grand scheme of things by the way...
Yes 7th place would of been ours if we had won and others lost but..
7th place is not good enough according to your previous standards.
Even if for some reason it suddenly is.. We didn't win, the others did and now we are 12th and they are not.. in fact they are fighting for Europe.. we are not.. we are simply not fighting full stop.

No one is fighting for Europe other than from United up...and those teams left in the FA Cup.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

The idea that there's no tangible difference between finishing 5th and 17th is truly laughable.

Ignoring the £20m difference in revenue and also ignoring the EL football that comes with 5th....

Being a club on the cusp of the CL gravy train i.e. 5th as opposed to one who'd just escaped the drop, makes a massive difference in the desirability of that club - both to it's existing star players and potential new signings.

If you finish 17th you've been in a relegation scrap, if you come 5th, you've been in the race for the top 4.

No difference? pffffftttt.

I can't believe anyone actually typed that with even the merest whiff of belief.

 

[Prevenger17]

Another example of 'either/or'.

That's what it's come down to under martinez, it seems

I was asked an either/or question to be fair

 

[Ihaters]

No one is fighting for Europe other than from United up...and those teams left in the FA Cup.

And you don't think we should be?