Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[davek]

There, I have added the answers to your inanely moot points.

Yeah, ok mate. Martinez has done nothing in the game...no club building, no cup wins. Nothing. Let's all just put them aside and get the lynch mob going.

No wonder the club takes no notice. Whatsoever.

You're fuming on here and Kenwright is back home in Shaftesbury Avenue having video conferences with Roberto about spending £150M in the summer.

 

[ianefc]

Just had a thought. A tad outlandish but imagine this....We are performing well enough, that our players don't want to leave and then the clubs majority shareholder puts money into the clubs transfers.

This would directly result in the squad/club getting stronger as appose attempting to take 1 step back (but thinking exactly where we would be without Lukaku) you could probably make a valid argument to say it's 2 steps back to maybe just maybe go 2 steps forward at best, thus resulting in us being exactly where we are now, next season potentially.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

In short, 5th, No FA Cup, Europa League qualification isn't going to keep him if all he wants is CL. So having 20mil and 5th is, like winning the FA Cup I concede, a moot point in relation to RL. Agreed?

Again - it's either/or.

Probly too late for 5th place now anyway, but who's fault's that?

 

[davek]

So Dave perchance things do not work out and RM leaves, are you going to follow him to his new club thus showing loyalty to RM?

Yes.

 

[bluestevon]

I get it: any time we see out a game with ease or end a game on the front foot it's because other stuff intervened; any time we've struggled is solely down to us. Uncanny that isn't it?




Martinez has resurrected a football club from the ashes with sheer force of will down at Swansea; he led a team from a one horse town to the biggest domestic cup in world football against the most expensively assembled squad in the world; then he reconfigured Moyes' team and led them in a new direction to achieve the club's best PL performance. Do yourself a favour mate - try and take the edge off your obvious hatred for this manager and look for a little balance.

As for Jagileka: yes, at least we're on agreement there - that he's turd as a leader of this team.

yes mate you are right, i should go over the top praising our performance in the first leg of a semi final that we ultimately got well beaten in, need to go back and start to prasie our first leg perfomrance against Kiev tbf, rather than dwelling on that second leg of the game as well, we won the first leg of a cup trophy i guess!

Would have made a guess that Madrid was the most expensive squad at the time actually but thats largely unimportant, said it repeatedly - won a cup got them relegated - think the two offset each other at best, and as McCleish has won the same trophy it is hardly the sign that he is an amazing manager is it?

Nice hyperbole with the Swansea tale mate, truly it is, he put the building blocks in place and set them on a good path but ultimately failed to get them 'over the line' as you are well aware, that came via those that followed and improved upon what he had implemented

Yes he certainly led them in a new direction mate - a one year blip of a one place rise followed by a plummet for two seasons into the bottom half of the table that the club hadnt been in for a decade, truly phenomenal, btw 5th is the same as 17th mate - so no he didn't lead us to the best ever PL performance - that would be Moyes the season he led the team to a 4th place finish - incidentilly doing it whilst having his most influential player sold at the 22 game mark of the season - when he was on track at the time to record a 75/76 points total in the league - and given moyes traditional strong league finishes then that isn't a myth - it's a FACT David.

Don't hate Martinez mate - check my posting history on the bloke, both before he arrived, after he arrived and even now i want him gone, he has a lot of good traits and some beautiful ideas about the game, but sadly he isn't living in the real world and he lacks the ability to manage a club at our level and certainly does at the level we as fans and the new board should be aspiring to.

Nice bloke, probably great to have a beer with and talk about football and the history of everton and the game in general - but not good enough to mmanage the club that matters a lot to me

try using some balance yourself dave rather than trying to be condescending as it comes off false

 

[Lanolin]

Keep forgetting that. European place and FA cup. Looking at league table at moment and our goal difference, my prediction would be 9th place there too. Young players with an extra season under their belt and generally improving, a keeper starting to look the business. Only down side really is that there's a half dozen games we should have walked away with better results from and maybe sneaked up a few places.
Maybe not the improvement we yet all hoping for but I don't see this inevitable downward spiral.

You think the only downside of this season is that we could have got better results in a handful of games but didn't?

You don't think the fact we look likely to have our worst ever home season is a downside?
Our top scorer and only genuine star is saying he's going to leave, but it's not a downside?
Throwing away a 2 goal cushion in a semi final is not a downside?
Having the second worst home defensive record in the entire continent is not a downside?
Employing a manager whose idea of a match changing sub is to try and even things up for the other side is not a downside?
Continuing to rely (arguably increasingly relying) on a 35 year old central midfielder to compete in games is not a downside?

There's that many downsides that you're even counting the fact that two thirds of the way through the season we decided to start using a vaguely competent goalkeeper who we have employed for two and a half years as an upside. The season's been wretched, and limping into the top half won't change that. I really hope we do make it into the top half, because that means we'll have won a few games, and that's what it's all about. But it's too little, too late now.

 

[oldblue]

So - Why has it taken at least half a dozen games, with no signs of remedy?

I think the change in keeper has gone someway to a remedy. Only been one game since then I'd argue we've capitulated from a period of strength and we were down to ten men.
We probably do deserve to know why this change wasn't made earlier but I do tend to think this need was to obvious that the club's hands may have been tied in some way. Or he made an ill judged gamble in protecting Robles. A decent replacement for Howard should have been warming up in the reserves since before Martinez arrived though.
Anyway like him or not he hasn't shown that level of bad judgment on any other player so I'm taking it on faith there was more to it. Could be wrong.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Only been one game since then I'd argue we've capitulated from a period of strength and we were down to ten men.

One game? West Ham?

We let a 2.1 goal advantage slip against city. There's two since joel replaced howard.

 

[oldblue]

You think the only downside of this season is that we could have got better results in a handful of games but didn't?

You don't think the fact we look likely to have our worst ever home season is a downside?
Our top scorer and only genuine star is saying he's going to leave, but it's not a downside?
Throwing away a 2 goal cushion in a semi final is not a downside?
Having the second worst home defensive record in the entire continent is not a downside?
Employing a manager whose idea of a match changing sub is to try and even things up for the other side is not a downside?
Continuing to rely (arguably increasingly relying) on a 35 year old central midfielder to compete in games is not a downside?

There's that many downsides that you're even counting the fact that two thirds of the way through the season we decided to start using a vaguely competent goalkeeper who we have employed for two and a half years as an upside. The season's been wretched, and limping into the top half won't change that. I really hope we do make it into the top half, because that means we'll have won a few games, and that's what it's all about. But it's too little, too late now.

Well a lot of those are kind of the same thing. And if results have been poor at home but we're not struggling near the bottom then obviously it's balanced elsewhere.
Other points you've made are speculation. And I think if you have counted losing over two legs to a City side full of superstars is a downside then surely it's obviously balanced by how well we did to that point and included in a goal that shouldn't have stood. And you've decided that Barry having a great season is a negative too.
On the whole I'm not too sure this is particularly balanced.

 

[oldblue]

One game? West Ham?

We let a 2.1 goal advantage slip against city. There's two since joel replaced howard.

Well we said league but even so that was hardly capitulation. Up against world class players over two legs and only lost to an abysmal decision.

 

[Lanolin]

Not sure there's evidence for this at all. I'd say some players fancy the idea of an established champions league side. If not that then why go to one that's on the periphery unless you think they're set up for continued champion's league involvement. Otherwise I reckon they'll be drawn to teams who may increase their profiles, play a style of football that allows them to flourish under a manager who encourages you to play.
I would love to believe it but I don't see Leicester attracting bigger names than Chelsea this close season. To be honest I don't see them attracting better than us, especially if we win the FA cup. Probably unfair but true

There's loads of evidence for it mate, literally loads.

I've just pointed out that the fact Villa, Hull and Wigan were in the glamorous showpiece final being watched around the world in the last few years didn't seem to attract a load of top players to come to them. I also pointed out that we managed to sign Lukaku when we had just finished 5th, and he now seems to be suggesting he wants to leave because we haven't taken the next step. That's 2. Look at the players City signed when they first got an influx of cash, including our very own Joleon Lescott who had just played his final game for us in the FA Cup final. Those players weren't going for the cash, they knew the good times were on the way to city and wanted to be in on it. Then you've got Alderweireld choosing Spurs over Southampton last summer, and the difference in the quality of players moving to Villa when they were top 6 with O'Neill in charge, and those willing to go there now. It stands to reason that players feel going to a team who's finishing just outside the champions league places is better equipped to fulfil their ambitions than one finishing in the bottom half.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Well we said league but even so that was hardly capitulation. Up against world class players over two legs and only lost to an abysmal decision.

It was essentially a three goal lead, no matter what way you look at it.

 

[bluestevon]

I think the change in keeper has gone someway to a remedy. Only been one game since then I'd argue we've capitulated from a period of strength and we were down to ten men.
We probably do deserve to know why this change wasn't made earlier but I do tend to think this need was to obvious that the club's hands may have been tied in some way. Or he made an ill judged gamble in protecting Robles. A decent replacement for Howard should have been warming up in the reserves since before Martinez arrived though.
Anyway like him or not he hasn't shown that level of bad judgment on any other player so I'm taking it on faith there was more to it. Could be wrong.

Started Alcaraz in the away derby and the away game in Kiev - to disastrous results
Brought Eto'o in only to have to ship him out a few months later as he was threathening to split the dressing room
Made an absolute mess of the Distin situation
Purseued McGeady for about 3 years and with two seperate clubs, lauded him as a brilliant player then abandoned him unbelievably quickly
Constantly encouraged Stones to express himself - to an extent the bloke has been mismanaged badly and potentially harmed his development as an atctual defender, weak managment when he needed to be stronger and make sure he had his priorites as a player straight, amusingly then dropped the player for doing exactly what he has been encouraged to do by him

He has made a fair few mistakes mate, most managers have tbf, but trying to paint out that Martinez hasn't would be wrong

 

[bluestevon]

It was essentially a three goal lead, no matter what way you look at it.

and at 3-1 we made yet another baffling substitution that changed the game vastly, taking off our only outlet in the game with that long left for kone... basically after that City just marched their entire line 15 yards further up the field and had us under siege as they had no fear of the counter anymore

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

and at 3-1 we made yet another baffling substitution that changed the game vastly, taking off our only outlet in the game with that long left for kone... basically after that City just marched their entire line 15 yards further up the field and had us under siege as they had no fear of the counter anymore

Ah yeah...But...but...but it was balanced out by gettin osman off (Why he started I do not know) for McCarthy...

People need more balance, I'm told.