Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Lanolin]

Well a lot of those are kind of the same thing. And if results have been poor at home but we're not struggling near the bottom then obviously it's balanced elsewhere.
Other points you've made are speculation. And I think if you have counted losing over two legs to a City side full of superstars is a downside then surely it's obviously balanced by how well we did to that point and included in a goal that shouldn't have stood. And you've decided that Barry having a great season is a negative too.
On the whole I'm not too sure this is particularly balanced.

None of them are the same thing. The only two vaguely similar ones are mentions of our home form, but they relate to different aspects and show different contexts.

Barry having a great season is very much a positive, but the fact that we are still heavily reliant on him going into what may well be the final season of his career is undoubtedly concerning. It's unlikely that we can replace him like for like so i would have liked to see a progression in how we play to prevent this having a major impact, but our latest game shows we're a long way from that.

If you don't think blowing a 2 goal lead in a semi final is a downside then i think you have very, very, very low expectations of the team you support. The fact that our team was cheaper did not comfort me on my way home from the Etihad, and the fact that our team had been more expensive than all the ones we beat on the way to the semi would kind of take away any pleasure i'd felt in getting that far even if i was so minded.

So you're using Hull and Wigan not attracting top class players as an example. Villa are in meltdown. We're not. Other than that. One player went to Spurs. They have a good profile abroad despite rarely playing in champion's league, partly because of the style they are known for.
City were so rich it's ridiculous and paid wages we never can, but still had to show they could maintain a champion's league place to attract absolute quality. Even now though I'd argue they may not be a lot more of an attraction than team who've been there for decades. And people have been talking about Rom leaving since he arrived. If he goes it will be to a much higher profile team and doubtless this would have happened if we got fourth.

Sorry, what do you want me to do? I'm using examples to show that the point you made was wrong, and you're telling me I'm not allowed to use examples?

You used the argument that winning the cup would attract top players. I challenged the viewpoint by pointing that the last team to win the cup without being one of the game's superpowers didn't seem to get this memo. I also used the previous two finalists just to give a bit more context. If you like, I can go back to the last team from outside the big boys before Wigan - Portsmouth. Again, not sure all these European players were sat at home dreaming of playing for Pompey while they were watching that.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Two. Then it was down to penalties if no more goals in extra time.

No.

It was three. I asked "how many to progress?" Not how many to take the match to ET & penalties.

 

[eddy]

Going to be an interesting two weeks I think. I hope we win the derby it will give us the springboard we need for a game at wembley
huge psycholgical lift if we beat them men. I wonder who is going to be calling the shots, or will Moshiri turn out to be Kenwrights poodle?
I hope Lukaku stays huge statement of intent if Moshiri/kenwright can keep him here

 

[Prevenger17]

Obviously, it was a gag, not a very good one but a gag non the less. According to the poll there is still around 3 in every 10 Evertonians that are happy with 21 wins in our last 67 (Sixty-seven) league games.

They're not happy with that, and neither am I. But things change in football, and pretty quickly at that. You can win the league one year and not trouble the top 4 the next (Chelsea) or fight relegation one year and fight for the title the next (Leicester). You know as well as I do that a Martinez: post FA Cup victory poll would have massively different results to the ones on display now. Until we get knocked out or we win, I just can't help but be positive about my team.

 

[maccavennie]

So your season review is to pick out every moment you didn't like. And some of you are wondering why a bit of balance is being suggested.

I would say about 65% of the poll that wants Martinez out would pick nearly every single situation that @bluestevon has picked there along with a few more as that's him being kind imo.

It's really not that hard to understand, 65% of people on this forum would like him out. There's a lot of different reasons but 65% of this forum want him gone. That is the opinion of a large portion of the fan base on what I regard as the best Everton forum out there.

That's not knee jerk, that hasn't just happened overnight, this is 18 months of gradual decline in league results, capitulations, awful home form, poor tactics and absolutely ridiculous BS spouted by our manager which makes me cringe that has people saying enough is enough. That's a horrible thing for me to say, as an Evertonian I can't bare to listen to our manager because of the absolute guff he spouts is ridiculous. So a big chunk of my love for Everton I have to try to avoid listening or reading what he says because he makes me cringe.

You want him to stay as do others and that's absolutely fine but those that want him to stay should respect those that would like him to leave, again I must stress that is 65% of Evertonians on this forum have lost faith, patience and love for the man.

If we win the FA Cup I will be absolutely buzzing for him, I genuinely mean that because he's then delivered a trophy. Come next season though we will be right here again where we are right now chatting about all of his weaknesses because he's proved time and time and time and time again that he is either unwilling or incapable of sorting out his many flaws, flaws that 65% of the fan Base have seen and mentioned time and time and time again.

 

[Prevenger17]

It's only £20m lads, we scoff at such paltry sums.

...unless we're kicking the crap out of someone at the club for failing to drive forwards the clubs commercial revenues by a lesser amount that is......

flip flop..

You're right mate, our stock is falling in that once vital Difference of £20m Cup, we need to prioritize that over our first major trophy in 21 years.

 

[bluestevon]

McLeish didn't win the FA Cup...not that there's any distinction for you - both cups are apparently rubbish and not worth winning now we're obviously looking to win the Champions League.

Moyes: oh yeah, of course, he was on track to finish with 75 points...because we all know that Moyes could keep his nerve when big gams turned up dont we? He was here 11 seasons, never troubled 70 points...even in his 'pomp' (such as it was). He had a ample time and the bet he could muster was 65 points...'with the best squad since the 80s'.

Martinez: you never hated him at any time. Ok, I accept that. But when did you change your tune? Went from Bobby's Brown Shoes to public enemy number 1 at some point didn't he? There's nothing like consistency, and this is nothing like consistency.

yeah my bad Dave, McCleish won the league cup your right, Redknapp with Portsmouth was the joker i was thinking off who won the FA, show me one post i have said that the cups aren't worth winning btw? you won't be able to as i never have

65 points with the best squad since the 80's - how has Martinez done with the squad which is lauded as better than Moyes sqaud and the new best sicne the 80's squad the past two seasons mate, pretty sure it's a long way shy of 65 points like

Yes Moyes was a bottler - but as that season 75 points wouldn't have actually gotten any silverware and as he finished 4th anyway even after losing Gravesen, then it's a decent presumtion we would have came around that total - can't bottle it when their is nothing to bottle can you?

When did i change my tune, hard to say the exact moment - but after 18 months of abject performances or results, seeing a defense that was the reason we managed to finally get away from the constant threat of relegation i lived through being wrecked within that span and a manager who seemed not to care because he has a philloophy, think it would be sometime around then Dave, or maybe it was one too many of the ridiculous decisions he has been making on a routine basis, or maybe it is the fact that all the jokes about Rodgers and the way we mocked that lot over him was equally valid in respects to martinez as well, they like it or not are very similar - both in ability, in ability to speak utter crap, the onyl difference is one is a piece of crap as a person and the other is a really nice bloke, which makes it a shame he isnt good enough Dave

 

[oldblue]

I wouldnt use that word if I were you

Are you really that angry about people not using french spellings . Not everyone does. I'm with you on this but I wouldn't be this forceful

 

[ianefc]

They're not happy with that, and neither am I. But things change in football, and pretty quickly at that. You can win the league one year and not trouble the top 4 the next (Chelsea) or fight relegation one year and fight for the title the next (Leicester). You know as well as I do that a Martinez: post FA Cup victory poll would have massively different results to the ones on display now. Until we get knocked out or we win, I just can't help but be positive about my team.

You know as well as I do a Martinez poll with Everton top 6 would be different also.

 

[Prevenger17]

You know as well as I do a Martinez poll with Everton top 6 would be different also.

I have a feeling a lot of people would still see 6th as stagnating. And with Romelu's impending exit, there would be a lot of nervy fans as there is now. A cup may have been Roberto's only way of winning us over this season.

 

[FisherEFC]

So you think a judgment on the season that includes the positives and negatives is 'deluded'. Think maybe you should calm down a bit and then read what is actually being said.

The only positives of this season mate are that we got favourable draws in the cups, soon as we got city we were dumped out, likewise had we got Arsenal rather than Chelsea most likely we would be sat here with the season over.

I want a cup more than anyone, but the cups should come with a strong league campaign not as an alternative. 2 seasons he's taken a top side and made them a bottom half club that can't defend/hold on to leads. The sooner he's gone and moshiri hooks Kenwright and shows some ambition the better.

For too long this club has been a boys club, no pressure on BK meant no pressure on Elstone, that then meant no pressure on the manager and so on and so fourth. I wish we were a business club who had ambition not just to make up the numbers, tired of having West ham and Stoke fans rip us to pieces as they outperform us, all this thanks to the job for the boys mentality that has existed at this club for many a year now. Under Moyes when things were going relatively well it worked but now we need ruthless decisions.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

You're right mate, our stock is falling in that once vital Difference of £20m Cup, we need to prioritize that over our first major trophy in 21 years.

Again - either/or.

It shouldn't EVER be a choice, it should be a minimum expectation. We're capable of both (And better) as much as any other team at the start of each of the last three seasons.

We're not gonna get 5th this time; but the way you pro-martinez carry on you'd think the league (and the associated prize money that goes with it - not to mention maintaining the little bit of respectability or pride) has no significance whatsoever.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

I want a cup more than anyone, but the cups should come with a strong league campaign not as an alternative. 2 seasons he's taken a top side and made them a bottom half club that can't defend/hold on to leads.

Well said.

 

[davek]

yeah my bad Dave, McCleish won the league cup your right, Redknapp with Portsmouth was the joker i was thinking off who won the FA, show me one post i have said that the cups aren't worth winning btw? you won't be able to as i never have

65 points with the best squad since the 80's - how has Martinez done with the squad which is lauded as better than Moyes sqaud and the new best sicne the 80's squad the past two seasons mate, pretty sure it's a long way shy of 65 points like

Yes Moyes was a bottler - but as that season 75 points wouldn't have actually gotten any silverware and as he finished 4th anyway even after losing Gravesen, then it's a decent presumtion we would have came around that total - can't bottle it when their is nothing to bottle can you?

When did i change my tune, hard to say the exact moment - but after 18 months of abject performances or results, seeing a defense that was the reason we managed to finally get away from the constant threat of relegation i lived through being wrecked within that span and a manager who seemed not to care because he has a philloophy, think it would be sometime around then Dave, or maybe it was one too many of the ridiculous decisions he has been making on a routine basis, or maybe it is the fact that all the jokes about Rodgers and the way we mocked that lot over him was equally valid in respects to martinez as well, they like it or not are very similar - both in ability, in ability to speak utter crap, the onyl difference is one is a piece of crap as a person and the other is a really nice bloke, which makes it a shame he isnt good enough Dave

You have your point of view which is obviously genuinely held. But it makes no sense to me in terms of your fears from the past about relegation. It isn't an issue now and it isn't likely to be either.

No one here, you included, have ever been able to explain how a frustration with two seasons of midtable mediocrity - offset by a season of great league results and a season where we've been very competitive in the cups - adds up to a dismissal in the context of Everton managers and their longevity in the past two decades. No one has tackled that with anything like a reasonable explanation. And for good reason - there is no rational explanation.

It's the rock that breaks every wave of demands to sack this manager on.

 

[Prevenger17]

We're not gonna get 5th this time; but the way you pro-martinez carry on you'd think the league (and the associated prize money that goes with it - not to mention maintaining the little bit of respectability or pride) has no significance whatsoever.

Compared to winning our first trophy in 21 years, the league carries little to no significance for me at all.