Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[griffla]

Regardless of comparisons it's no coincidence for me that a manager renowned for having a poor defensive record has turned a once solid back line in to one that concedes as many as we do.

There's no doubt about it, Moyes was better at organising the defence and Martinez better at creating a vibrant attack. In an ideal world we'd be great at both but then we'd be top of the league. We need to improve but I know which I prefer watching in the meantime.

 

[griffla]

Which managers in the recent premier league era, have joined their club and been an immediate and consistent success?
There's Ranieri at Leicester. I suppose Wenger at Arsenal although different time when players were getting lashed every night and Mourinho at Chelsea - although he had that first wave of Abramovic's millions to help him. There may be others but generally you need a bit of time.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

Which managers in the recent premier league era, have joined their club and been an immediate and consistent success?
There's Ranieri at Leicester. I suppose Wenger at Arsenal although different time when players were getting lashed every night and Mourinho at Chelsea - although he had that first wave of Abramovic's millions to help him. There may be others but generally you need a bit of time.

There's a difference between instant success and watching 2 years of utter turd.

 

[The Equaliser]

Almost painful reading this. Almost.

 

[kithnou]

Almost painful reading this. Almost.

what more would it take?

 

[tim cahill]

There's no doubt about it, Moyes was better at organising the defence and Martinez better at creating a vibrant attack. In an ideal world we'd be great at both but then we'd be top of the league. We need to improve but I know which I prefer watching in the meantime.

People forget that at times we were great going forward under Moyes. Pienaar and Baines on the left in particular played some brilliant stuff. When we had Johnson and Yakubu up front we were very dangerous and Arteta in his prime was a pleasure to watch. Moyes never had the luxury of paying £28m on a CF though and in his last few years in particular he had to make do with very little investment. Remember Cahill and Saha playing up front when they were both past it? I'm sure that wasn't out of choice.

My point is it's a lot easier to look good going forward when you're actually able to spend money on exciting forward players.

 

[willo30]

Which managers in the recent premier league era, have joined their club and been an immediate and consistent success?
There's Ranieri at Leicester. I suppose Wenger at Arsenal although different time when players were getting lashed every night and Mourinho at Chelsea - although he had that first wave of Abramovic's millions to help him. There may be others but generally you need a bit of time.

Wasn't after success, was more after improvement but not going backwards. I wasn't expecting that.
Manager who have improved clubs currently are Hughes, Koeman and Pochettino off the top of my head. Improvement season on season is a good benchmark. Bilic, Ranieri and others we will see next season I suppose.

 

[riddick]

Which managers in the recent premier league era, have joined their club and been an immediate and consistent success?
There's Ranieri at Leicester. I suppose Wenger at Arsenal although different time when players were getting lashed every night and Mourinho at Chelsea - although he had that first wave of Abramovic's millions to help him. There may be others but generally you need a bit of time.

Don't recall Pochettino bringing Spurs to bottom half two years in a row. Why can't you quantify it with "I don't remember which managers had immediate success then brought their clubs down about 7 spots in the table and WASN'T sacked"? Be a MUCH shorter list. As in...I doubt there is any other club that has had this in the PL era and stuck with the manager.

 

[Thomasc]

I nearly just replied to another one of DaveK's insanity posts and stopped and thought to myself, what are you doing man?

Stop pandering to his crackpot ego, some of you are just encouraging him to keep going.

I wish mods would lock this thread now until after the semi, I'm pretty sure every point has been covered about where we are, what-we have done, not done, expectations, where we have failed massively, where we can see a glimmer of hope etc etc....it's basically just grown men making a show of themselves now.

 

[jceverton]

He's a good manager suited to Arsenal, not for these players we have. If he came in it'd be a root and branch job, and we dont require it. Best sticking with RM and giving him the cash to sort this defensive unit out.

Didn't he have the defensive unit sorted out in his first season, why does he need to sort it out again?

 

[kithnou]

I nearly just replied to another one of DaveK's insanity posts and stopped and thought to myself, what are you doing man?

Stop pandering to his crackpot ego, some of you are just encouraging him to keep going.

I wish mods would lock this thread now until after the semi, I'm pretty sure every point has been covered about where we are, what-we have done, not done, expectations, where we have failed massively, where we can see a glimmer of hope etc etc....it's basically just grown men making a show of themselves now.

Bit harsh mate. I for one enjoy Dave's writings.

 

[deipnosophist]

Bit harsh mate. I for one enjoy Dave's writings.

...a.k.a. Rumpelstiltskin's rantings...

 

[tim cahill]

I nearly just replied to another one of DaveK's insanity posts and stopped and thought to myself, what are you doing man?

Stop pandering to his crackpot ego, some of you are just encouraging him to keep going.

I wish mods would lock this thread now until after the semi, I'm pretty sure every point has been covered about where we are, what-we have done, not done, expectations, where we have failed massively, where we can see a glimmer of hope etc etc....it's basically just grown men making a show of themselves now.

No ones forcing you to look at the thread mate.

 

[griffla]

There's a difference between instant success and watching 2 years of utter turd.

It's not utter turd though is it? Our home form has been turd admittedly, but we're widely thought of as one of the more exciting attacking teams.

People forget that at times we were great going forward under Moyes. Pienaar and Baines on the left in particular played some brilliant stuff. When we had Johnson and Yakubu up front we were very dangerous and Arteta in his prime was a pleasure to watch. Moyes never had the luxury of paying £28m on a CF though and in his last few years in particular he had to make do with very little investment. Remember Cahill and Saha playing up front when they were both past it? I'm sure that wasn't out of choice.

My point is it's a lot easier to look good going forward when you're actually able to spend money on exciting forward players.

'Bainaar' were a great combo and all our play went through them because of it. Andy Johnson was ok but rarely was he 'dangerous' and Yak cost a fair whack to be fair, though he was good especially that one season. But Martinez bought Lukaku with money he made selling Moyes players (mainly Fellaini) and he had enough about him to persuade a big talent to join us. Lukaku would never have left Chelsea for a Moyes Everton.

Wasn't after success, was more after improvement but not going backwards. I wasn't expecting that.
Manager who have improved clubs currently are Hughes, Koeman and Pochettino off the top of my head. Improvement season on season is a good benchmark. Bilic, Ranieri and others we will see next season I suppose.

Yep Pochettino has done well, from the moment he arrived at Southampton he's looked the part. Billic? Nah. He's done ok so far but we'll see long term - he may have signed a new contract but I bet Payet does't stay till the end of it. Koeman? Yeah he's done oright, but I wouldn't say he's ripping up trees. Hughes? Cmon they've signed some names and they've stopped hoofing it to Crouch, again he's doing OK nothing that special.

Don't recall Pochettino bringing Spurs to bottom half two years in a row. Why can't you quantify it with "I don't remember which managers had immediate success then brought their clubs down about 7 spots in the table and WASN'T sacked"? Be a MUCH shorter list. As in...I doubt there is any other club that has had this in the PL era and stuck with the manager.

So Pochettino and Ranieri this season then? Even Pochettino's predecessor Redknapp got that side into the CL - so it's not like he's worked miracles like Ranieri has.

 

[Lee Smith]

No ones forcing you to look at the thread mate.

Yeah but it's like smack, we try not to, but it's just so moreish