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Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

Martinez in or out?

  • In

  • Out

  • Getting splinters eating cheese on toast on the fence

Results are only viewable after voting.
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oldblue said:
You shouldn't be building a team around players unlikely to be anywhere near their peak a couple years down the line. And professional footballers ought to be able to adjust to some changes. If it's totally out of their skill set then they'd suffer but I don't think we've ever played a system that doesn't require them to mark, track back, pass the ball simply and organise themselves positionally with their team mates.
I think he's definitely more of a fundamentalist than a pragmatist but this really doesn't excuse players not doing basic parts of their job. That's all on them.
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Yes they should be able to adjust to some changes but this was revolution not evolution. Yes players make mistakes they all do but to constantly be put in positions were a mistake seems likely is a bit much when it's gone on for 2 years now. Either the players aren't listening or they are not being coached correctly or they don't fit the system. I would go for the latter, possibly has a bit to do with coaching as well. The system relies heavily on keeping the ball and we don't have the players anywhere near good enough to do it the in the PL on a constant basis. The players can be blamed but if they are not good enough then there is not a lot you can do. It's the same philosophy Spain had up to 2014 when it was well and truly worked out by Holland and put to bed once and for all. Yet we still feel we can do it with lesser players.
 
willo30 said:
Yes they should be able to adjust to some changes but this was revolution not evolution. Yes players make mistakes they all do but to constantly be put in positions were a mistake seems likely is a bit much when it's gone on for 2 years now. Either the players aren't listening or they are not being coached correctly or they don't fit the system. I would go for the latter, possibly has a bit to do with coaching as well. The system relies heavily on keeping the ball and we don't have the players anywhere near good enough to do it the in the PL on a constant basis. The players can be blamed but if they are not good enough then there is not a lot you can do. It's the same philosophy Spain had up to 2014 when it was well and truly worked out by Holland and put to bed once and for all. Yet we still feel we can do it with lesser players.
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Haven't Jags and Coleman played in midfield. And people have touted Baines and Stones as having the potential to. This would surely mean they should be comfortable enough to look for a pass.
 
oldblue said:
Haven't Jags and Coleman played in midfield. And people have touted Baines and Stones as having the potential to. This would surely mean they should be comfortable enough to look for a pass.
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Which they do probably 90% of the time but you need close to 100% to make this work so unless we are going to go and raid Barcelona for players then I can't see anything changing.
 

Sentinel said:
If he wins us the FA Cup, I'll pay for the limo meself. 21 years is a long wait. If he wins us the cup, who'd begrudge him the applause. I keep saying he's a 'cup manager", he is what it says on the box. Don't blame the man, blame Kenwright, he hired him.

Strength through adversity, ever heard of that? Martinez has been taking a lot of stick recently, who knows maybe it's made him a better manager. The criticism has been justified to an extent, if he can add defensive steel to his repertoire, he'll have Evertonians to thank for it.
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He doesnt play defense mate....
 
willo30 said:
Which they do probably 90% of the time but you need close to 100% to make this work so unless we are going to go and raid Barcelona for players then I can't see anything changing.
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There are teams play similarly at lots of different levels. Personally I thought he was trying to adjust too quickly when he first arrived. Now I think the players are there who can make it effective. I'd say the major problem can be not enough options to pass to and not always enough confidence in themselves and players around them. It tells when teams press.
I think on the whole though this side of the game has hardly been the disaster I was worried about two seasons ago. Not defending crosses is still the main concern but I think this will improve dramatically with Robles in there.
Coaches and manager still need to work a lot on confidence and movement but the players need to take more responsibility or no system will work
 
jceverton said:
It's pretty straightforward- you're claiming that our defensive problems are the result of players who can't deal with changes in tactics from opposition teams. I'm arguing that a failure to deal with this is down to the manager.
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Kind of....

What im thinking is that we cant continue just having the Moyes tactic of Baines and Coleman bombing on...its been found out repeatedly now.

I think we need a new Right back whose more defensively sound (whose a real monster and ideally a right sided lescott or better) so we can alternate with Coleman + habe Deulofeu and Lennon as RW options.

My thinking is that if Deulofeu had a Lilian Thuram in his prime behind him then we'd be able to let him off the leash and also be very strong on the right defensively as the RB could stop the winger and Deulofeu pins back the opposition RB due to the counter threat....

Thats just one signing....but a MAJOR signing of top quality...i think it would give us more options and also firm up the right flank.

Left side, we already have Baines and Oviedo with Garbutt/Galloway also offering different options....thats fine for another season i think...BUT on the left we need a major superstar on the wing. Another Deulofeu quality type attacking wise.

I just think the opposition would be pinned back more with 2 very attacking wide midfielders/ wingers....with the counter attacking threat nullifying their full backs...then a Monster right back is needed to allow Deulofeu to attack.

With Coleman and Baines they dont offer enough defensively for me to enable us to play wingers.

I think thats the key to our defence....as well as one CM as well.
 

oldblue said:
I agree about the full backs but the team has been set up for seasons with them as the main outlet. I suggested a few seasons ago that we may have seen the best of both and was piped down pretty quickly. I think he is looking at alternatives but it'll be a brave decision. And I think we've got to be sure Del is ready to deliver most weeks.
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Yes this is exactly my thinking...

2 attacking full backs with Cleverley and Lennon in front is fine (yet limited) and he needs to have players now to allow us to start Deulofeu each game.
 
Zatara said:
Kind of....

What im thinking is that we cant continue just having the Moyes tactic of Baines and Coleman bombing on...its been found out repeatedly now.

I think we need a new Right back whose more defensively sound (whose a real monster and ideally a right sided lescott or better) so we can alternate with Coleman + habe Deulofeu and Lennon as RW options.

My thinking is that if Deulofeu had a Lilian Thuram in his prime behind him then we'd be able to let him off the leash and also be very strong on the right defensively as the RB could stop the winger and Deulofeu pins back the opposition RB due to the counter threat....

Thats just one signing....but a MAJOR signing of top quality...i think it would give us more options and also firm up the right flank.

Left side, we already have Baines and Oviedo with Garbutt/Galloway also offering different options....thats fine for another season i think...BUT on the left we need a major superstar on the wing. Another Deulofeu quality type attacking wise.

I just think the opposition would be pinned back more with 2 very attacking wide midfielders/ wingers....with the counter attacking threat nullifying their full backs...then a Monster right back is needed to allow Deulofeu to attack.

With Coleman and Baines they dont offer enough defensively for me to enable us to play wingers.

I think thats the key to our defence....as well as one CM as well.
Click to expand...

I think if Coleman and baines weren't instructed by the manager to bomb forward as much you might find they are more defensively sound.

Tactics are the issue imo
 

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