Roberto Martinez discussion

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nsno-chris said:
Working 60 hour weeks mate on a project, but I still swing by every now and then and most Saturdays after the game to see what rubbish your spouting ;)
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Rubbish, you say?

nsno-chris said:
He's living in a different world to everyone else, he clearly can't see what's happening in front of him otherwise things would change.

He's stubborn in his ways and it's showing. No movement, static with the ball going from left to right, teams finding it far to easy to play against, we are the worst team in the league in every department and the form guide shows it

We've won 1 in 13, and are loosing valuable points to teams who are, unbelievably, in the relegation zone with us

This is roberto martinez at Everton, not wigan but everton and he's slowly ripping the heart and core from our team
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nsno-chris said:
hahaha you really are a muppet mate.

I'll break this down nice and simple for you

1) I didn't want Martinez in the first place
2) I praised him last year (as such i made a mug of you in a previous thread that you just "ignored"), and put my view across when he got things wrong
3) This season has been a shambles, so much so that I raised this point after the palace game that something didn't look and feel right
4) Since then he has refused to identify and rectify the situation which got me to questionning his ability to manage our club
5) The truly awful Christmas period has solidified my stance that the man has the lost it, the plot, the players; he has no ideas
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I think his transfer record is excellent if looked at in a different way:

Short term signings 4hits / 4 misses:

Traore LOAN = miss
Atsu LOAN = miss
Alcaraz FREE= miss
McGeady (£1mil?) = miss
Deulofeu LOAN = hit
Lennon LOAN = hit
Barry LOAN = hit
Lukaku LOAN = hit

Longer term signings 9hits / 2 misses
Deulofeu (£4.2mil) = hit
Barry (Free) = hit
Kone (£5mil) = Pending
Lukaku £28mil)= hit
McCarthy (Free)= hit
Barry (Free)=hit
Cleverley (Free)=hit
Besic (£2.5 rising to £4mil)= hit
Galloway (£500k rising to £4mil)= hit
Lennon (£4.5mil) = miss
Mori (£9.5mil)= hit
Robles (unknown)= miss

I think if he has money in his pocket and is looking for a signing to add to the team longer term he usually gets it right. Most of his misses have been speculative punts.

For this reason i think if given sizeable cash he would do well with it and focus on top quality.

LinekersLegs said:
One of the things that most impressed me about Moyes was his skill in the transfer market, over multiple years he had an excellent record - extraordinarily so when compared to the money wasted by our lovable neighbors.

I thought we'd be lucky to get anywhere close to a manager with such skill but browsing the McGeady thread believe that Martinez himself has so far been very solid - McGeady and Alcaraz being his only two permanent transfers that most would label failures and those for a combined 1.5m in fees before wages so hardly a great hit given the cost of modern football. Suppose Eto'o might also be added but his issues were more of-field than on it and again he was a free transfer.

There are a couple of loans that didn't work out in Traore and Atsu but in general our loans have been far more successful than average with Lukaku/Barry/Deulofeu/Lennon all making such an impact that we did permanent deals for them.

Here is the breakdown using Toffeeweb data with my assessment of what the majority would think in terms of hit/miss or to be determined. Haven't included those players without a first team premier league start like Henen or Holgate although I personally think those type of signings have excellent risk/reward.

Arouna Kone Wigan Athletic £5m - eventual HIT
Antolin Alcaraz [Free Agent] No Fee - MISS
Joel Robles Atletico Madrid £4.5m - Mixed but probably a HIT especially compared to Jan Mucha who he replaced
Gerard Deulofeu Barcelona Loan HIT, permanent transfer £4.2m HIT
James McCarthy Wigan Athletic £13m HIT
Romelu Lukaku Chelsea Loan HIT, permanent transfer £25m HIT
Gareth Barry Manchester City Loan HIT, permanent transfer £1m HIT
Aiden McGeady Spartak Moscow £1.5m MISS
Mo Besic £4m HIT (or else @MoutsGoat will murder me)
Lacina Traore Monaco Loan MISS
Christian Atsu Chelsea Loan MISS
Samuel Eto'o [Free Agent] No Fee MISS
Bredan Galloway MK Dons ? HIT
Aaron Lennon Tottenham Hotspur Loan HIT, permanent transfer £4.5m tbd
Tom Cleverley [Free Agent] No Fee TBD but initial signs encouraging
Ramiro Funes Mori River Plate £9.5m TBD but initial signs encouraging

If I have my data correct that it only 15 first team players over 5 windows, pretty small amount compared to, for example, Liverpool with 7 transfers for over 75m this summer alone.
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Zatara said:
I think his transfer record is excellent if looked at in a different way:

Short term signings 4hits / 4 misses:

Traore LOAN = miss
Atsu LOAN = miss
Alcaraz FREE= miss
McGeady (£1mil?) = miss
Deulofeu LOAN = hit
Lennon LOAN = hit
Barry LOAN = hit
Lukaku LOAN = hit

Longer term signings 9hits / 2 misses
Deulofeu (£4.2mil) = hit
Barry (Free) = hit
Kone (£5mil) = Pending
Lukaku £28mil)= hit
McCarthy (Free)= hit
Barry (Free)=hit
Cleverley (Free)=hit
Besic (£2.5 rising to £4mil)= hit
Galloway (£500k rising to £4mil)= hit
Lennon (£4.5mil) = miss
Mori (£9.5mil)= hit
Robles (unknown)= miss

I think if he has money in his pocket and is looking for a signing to add to the team longer term he usually gets it right. Most of his misses have been speculative punts.

For this reason i think if given sizeable cash he would do well with it and focus on top quality.
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I think you're being harsh there in regards Lennon as a permanent deal. It's only been a few months really and he's had Del, Kone and even Naismith (to an extent) do very well and keep Lennon away from the team.
 
We got him on loan first and he did well for the firsr few games then totally fizzled out (probably was told we would be signing him)...

For me it's just a pointless signing. He runs around alot but limited end product...weve got Mirallas / Kone / Deulofeu / Pienaar / McGeady / Lennon. 6 wide players...we need 3 top players only and a young one as 4th choice.

For me Deulofeu on the right is the only one id keep. Kone on the left.

Charlie Sweet said:
I think you're being harsh there in regards Lennon as a permanent deal. It's only been a few months really and he's had Del, Kone and even Naismith (to an extent) do very well and keep Lennon away from the team.
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Zatara said:
We got him on loan first and he did well for the firsr few games then totally fizzled out (probably was told we would be signing him)...

For me it's just a pointless signing. He runs around alot but limited end product...weve got Mirallas / Kone / Deulofeu / Pienaar / McGeady / Lennon. 6 wide players...we need 3 top players only and a young one as 4th choice.

For me Deulofeu on the right is the only one id keep. Kone on the left.
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I don't necessarily disagree but since there's no sign of either Pienaar or McGeady, Lennon is useful to have in the mix.

I do agree though that signing Lennon but still having no plans for the other senior bench warmers doesn't look too clever
 

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