Roberto Martinez discussion

[dannyboy]

It's got better under Bobby, I won't argue. The way Moyes kept disrespecting my club and alienating the young players combined with that abject surrender against wigan made me honestly doubt whether I would buy a season ticket if he was still in charge. And coming out of the ground after the derby and the early season wins it felt great, like there was a whole new energy around the club and everything was possible again.

Unfortunately I haven't felt that same energy at all over the last few months.

And honestly for me the biggest change wasn't when Moyes left and Martinez came, as glad as I was to see that happen, but when we bought Jelavic and Gibson. That was the real sea change, the moment when going to Goodison stopped being a chore and started being exciting again.

Since then we've been excellent at home and mostly great to watch at home. Under both managers. As much as that wigan game and the wembley derby were soul destroying awful games that should have led to Moyes being sacked, we were mostly superb to watch at home in the league last year and at the back end of the year before. Really great.

And, on the whole, we've been as good if not slightly better at home this year.

Long may it continue. But I think it's not fair to our players and the way they performed last year in games vs qpr, newcastle, the manchester clubs, west ham etc to put that all on Martinez' shoulders as if he improved an awful side. He didn't. He took over a very good side and has made them slightly better. That's not to be sniffed at, mind, if he keeps improving us slightly every year he'll be one of the best managers we've ever had.

Good post. Tbh I think some of the stuff we played last year was fantastic. We were probably one of the most exciting teams to watch in the first half of the season, then we had that slump around January where we reverted to default mode and played dour football for a couple of months. Combination of the manager's tactics and once again not being backed in a transfer window.

People on here definitely overstate how negative Moyes was and how pleasing this current brand of football is on the eye. Eventually the cult worship of Martinez will die down a little and debate on this forum will be better for it.

Expectations for next year are going to be at a massive high, and I definitely feel Martinez has his work cut out living up to them. The good thing is that he appears to embrace the added pressure.

 

[Ihaters]

Come on mate, it's ridiculous to suggest that we can't compare our current manager with his predecessor for another 11 years.

I understand the idea that Moyes had longevity and had us consistently finishing in the top 6. Fair enough, that is something Martinez can only be judged on in time.

But we can make immediate comparisons - and unfortunately for Moyes lovers, Martinez is already doing better than Moyes did in terms of gathering points, not only compared with last season, but also compared with Moyes 11 years. I mentioned it earlier - if we win our next 2 home games, we'll have more points after 29 games that we've had at the '29 games played stage' of a season since we won the league in 1987.

Martinez is doing fantastically well when you look at how we've fared across seasons historically.

Odd concept. Why would someone who liked Moyes find it unfortunate that Martinez is doing better?
Martinez doing well has literally no bearing on Moyes ability, Moyes was as good (or bad) as he was, regardless of how the next guy does. You either rate the progress he made or you don't...
Martinez can't influence Moyes time here, DM has gone, he's done what he's done and no amount of silverware and success or failure from the new guy, will change whether what he did for us was good or not.
Now he's gone why would we want anything other than an even better replacement?

It doesn't have to be pro Moyes/anti Martinez, personally I am pro both, it definately doesn't have to be unfortunate for Moyes fans if the next guy is better, because as Everton fans, we all always want the current manager to be the best.

Also there are no Moyes lovers left I suspect, the guy has single handedly character assassinated himself since leaving here, there are plenty however, who still think he did a good job for us though and defend his time here as a positive thing, especially against some of the nonsense being spouted.

 

[Kiwi]

Odd concept. Why would someone who liked Moyes find it unfortunate that Martinez is doing better?
Martinez doing well has literally no bearing on Moyes ability, Moyes was as good (or bad) as he was, regardless of how the next guy does. You either rate the progress he made or you don't...
Martinez can't influence Moyes time here, DM has gone, he's done what he's done and no amount of silverware and success or failure from the new guy, will change whether what he did for us was good or not.
Now he's gone why would we want anything other than an even better replacement?

It doesn't have to be pro Moyes/anti Martinez, personally I am pro both, it definately doesn't have to be unfortunate for Moyes fans if the next guy is better, because as Everton fans, we all always want the current manager to be the best.

Also there are no Moyes lovers left I suspect, the guy has single handedly character assassinated himself since leaving here, there are plenty however, who still think he did a good job for us though and defend his time here as a positive thing, especially against some of the nonsense being spouted.

This. Obviously there are lows and highs within each and every managers careers. While I think Moyes's mentality hindered rather than helped us in crucial times where we wanted/needed to push on, you can't deny he
1: Saved us from relegation and dire straights
2: From there built a successful team that was consistently in the top half of the table and pushing for Europe
3: Didnt push us hugely into debt with his transfer dealings.
4: However he let himself down and us with the wembley disappointments, his failure to win anything and the bottling and siege mentality vs the top four teams that invariably cost us europe.
5: Then he poisoned us against him in the media through comments he made after leaving us.

Martinez has been a breath of fresh air in the club and brought a "gun to a gunfight approach" when we play the top six. It has sometimes worked and sometimes hasn't. We also are developing a more continental style of play which involves holding the ball and controlling the game, and have been playing this consistently (unlike moyes teams) However Martinez has only been here for less than a year and so we need to see what impacts he has on Everton over the next few years as he brings in his players and more of his ideas and style of football.

 

[deipnosophist]

Articulate summation there lad. NZers really are savvy sporting observers/analysts.

 

[Christiffa25]

Come on mate, it's ridiculous to suggest that we can't compare our current manager with his predecessor for another 11 years.

I understand the idea that Moyes had longevity and had us consistently finishing in the top 6. Fair enough, that is something Martinez can only be judged on in time.

But we can make immediate comparisons - and unfortunately for Moyes lovers, Martinez is already doing better than Moyes did in terms of gathering points, not only compared with last season, but also compared with Moyes 11 years. I mentioned it earlier - if we win our next 2 home games, we'll have more points after 29 games that we've had at the '29 games played stage' of a season since we won the league in 1987.

Martinez is doing fantastically well when you look at how we've fared across seasons historically.

This is a better squad of players than moyes had certainly last season and many other seasons if not all seasons.

That in no way is to knock Roberto or praise moyes...it's just fact!

I'd put them pretty equall currently. Getting to the same point in different styles. If Roberto doesn't get us CL or a cup win over the next 5 yrs he's done no better than moyes even if you like the way he does it better.

Moyes hit a cieling with us. He didn't under-perform of fail not being able to break that. With our finances you shouldn't be able to break it.

If Roberto does break it, that would IMO make him a very special manager. And I don't just mean getting 4th once...moyes did that!! I mean turning us into a team that competes regulary for a top 4 spot.

 

[Nobody]

I'm not criticising the manager first of all, I have been there with him experiencing our highs this season and it has felt great. He has been great and long may his reign continue.
What I don't really agree with is his individual praise for players every night in the echo. This week we've seen how he thinks John Stones will be a leading CB for England, Aiden McGeady is a winger every premiership side would love to have and today's features Ross Barkley. We all know our players deserve praise but I don't believe in hyping them up too much in the media and creating that extra pressure on them.

Talk about the team as a whole, not individuals. Or just don't say anything.

For anyone that reads the echo will probably know what I'm talking about.

 

[Nobody]

I was disappointed to see Martinez go straight down the tunnel last week at the emirates. Surely he is allowed to come over to the supporters or clap them from the technical box? Straight down the tunnel he went. It was only Distin who came right over to the fans with his shirt the others stood distanced away and clapped. I'm losing my patience with this sport in all honesty.

 

[royalblue66]

(Hope in right thread)Daily Star reckon Arsenal are looking at Bobby to be their next manager, we have only had him a few months. Oh dearie me,lost for words tbh.

 

[Dymak]

What I don't really agree with is his individual praise for players every night in the echo. This week we've seen how he thinks John Stones will be a leading CB for England, Aiden McGeady is a winger every premiership side would love to have and today's features Ross Barkley. We all know our players deserve praise but I don't believe in hyping them up too much in the media and creating that extra pressure on them.

Talk about the team as a whole, not individuals. Or just don't say anything.

For anyone that reads the echo will probably know what I'm talking about.

I hear what you are saying. It sometimes makes me think that his standards are really low, when he is waxing lyrical about the likes of McGeady etc. It makes me concerned about who he will buy in the transfer market

 

[Allezfan]

I hear what you are saying. It sometimes makes me think that his standards are really low, when he is waxing lyrical about the likes of McGeady etc. It makes me concerned about who he will buy in the transfer market

Don't be stupid. What he says and what he thinks aren't the same things.

 

[nigelcoyb]

But the same names (or changed) circle like vultures to have a go at Martinez there's a degree of venom mixed with glee including references to the previous manager when results aren't great - why?

The whole point of support is to give yours the benefit of the doubt and loyalty til it's patently obvious there are issues, is anyone seriously saying Martinez shouldn't be given both this season? The previous regime had years before people actually voiced their concerns.

The "don't get me wrong I'm a big Martinez fan" or "it's not a Moyes vs Martinez thing" is just a smokescreen with these people.

 

[Allezfan]

The "don't get me wrong I'm a big Martinez fan" or "it's not a Moyes vs Martinez thing" is just a smokescreen with these people.

I think we should be willing to assume that people are being honest, here. And not start a witch hunt when someone says something vaguely critical while viewing anything psoitive they say as 'a smokescreen' or lies.

If you're discounting anything positive said as 'a smokescreen' then yes people are going to appear unfairly negative but that's not exactly fair to do.

 

[Dymak]

But the same names (or changed) circle like vultures to have a go at Martinez there's a degree of venom mixed with glee including references to the previous manager when results aren't great - why?

The whole point of support is to give yours the benefit of the doubt and loyalty til it's patently obvious there are issues, is anyone seriously saying Martinez shouldn't be given both this season? The previous regime had years before people actually voiced their concerns.

The "don't get me wrong I'm a big Martinez fan" or "it's not a Moyes vs Martinez thing" is just a smokescreen with these people.

There is so much wrong with this post. Moyes was not given 11 years before people started voicing their concerns about his way of doing things. People were highlighting their concerns about him for years, from as early 2003/04, and even in 2005/06 when we had just finished 4th the season before.

I haven't heard anyone say 'Martinez OUT', not one. People are giving him time, but they shouldn't be prevented from voicing their concerns in the mean time, just like people aren't prevented from giving him praise in the mean time. Opinions and concerns can be stated before he has 'had his time'. Stating a concern does not mean you have withdrawn your support of him. It's a message board, people state their opinions.

All these dramatic metaphors you are using, 'vultures' full of 'venom', I think that is your own misinterpretation of what is taking place. I don't think it is like that at all.

 

[Ihaters]

But the same names (or changed) circle like vultures to have a go at Martinez there's a degree of venom mixed with glee including references to the previous manager when results aren't great - why?

The whole point of support is to give yours the benefit of the doubt and loyalty til it's patently obvious there are issues, is anyone seriously saying Martinez shouldn't be given both this season? The previous regime had years before people actually voiced their concerns.

The "don't get me wrong I'm a big Martinez fan" or "it's not a Moyes vs Martinez thing" is just a smokescreen with these people.

No. Next.

As for the rest, pretty sure everyone is gutted when we lose, not read anyone seem happy with a loss, especially just to rub it in, and anyone who does is an embarrassment as any loss is a loss to Everton, not Martinez.

Personally I think your pretending this happens as its convenient to your argument... Moyes fans not wanting Martinez to succeed because they like the previous manager is just stupid, we're all Everton fans and want the club to do as well as possible.

You are blatantly wrong about people being filled with glee at defeats, it simply doesn't happen, most people are behind Martinez whether they liked Moyes or not. Moyes is gone, no one wants Martinez to fail because of a previous like of the work Moyes did. What does it achieve? Why would an Everton fan want Everton to lose? It simply makes no sense.

The "don't get me wrong I'm a big Martinez fan" or "it's not a Moyes vs Martinez thing" you mention, is probably correct, its just you can't seem to comprehend people liking more than one Everton manager.

 

[Furey1878]

No. Next.

As for the rest, pretty sure everyone is gutted when we lose, not read anyone seem happy with a loss, especially just to rub it in, and anyone who does is an embarrassment as any loss is a loss to Everton, not Martinez.

Personally I think your pretending this happens as its convenient to your argument... Moyes fans not wanting Martinez to succeed because they like the previous manager is just stupid, we're all Everton fans and want the club to do as well as possible.

You are blatantly wrong about people being filled with glee at defeats, it simply doesn't happen, most people are behind Martinez whether they liked Moyes or not. Moyes is gone, no one wants Martinez to fail because of a previous like of the work Moyes did. What does it achieve? Why would an Everton fan want Everton to lose? It simply makes no sense.

The "don't get me wrong I'm a big Martinez fan" or "it's not a Moyes vs Martinez thing" you mention, is probably correct, its just you can't seem to comprehend people liking more than one Everton manager.

He typed 'both', I think he meant next season as well, just forgot to type it down.

But yeeah agreed. I'd argue he needs longer as without financial backing your relying on your youth system. But certainly, we'll have a good idea about where we're headed/what we can achieve after the end of next season.