Roberto Martinez discussion

[Stanley Parker]

Where did I say we couldn't beat them? I agree with you that we can score v anyone and we can win. I just wouldn't quite say that with 180 mins to play v City that we are on the 'cusp' of a cup final.

But you don't really fancy our chances, do you?

If Silva Aguero and Kompany are fit then they are capable of anything. It will be a monumental effort to get through.

So should Roberto concentrate his resources on the Premier League?

 

[Stanley Parker]

Actually mate i reckon there is hardly any Wigan fan who would trade premiership survival with the potential to always build and become a more established team in the division like others have done over a transitory feel good factor that lasted about 6 days for them. How exactly have they done since going down btw? It's like saying most Evertonians would trade one European cup win over staying in the premiership and plummeting down the divisions.

In fact, there was an overwhelming feeling among Wigan fans that they would rather go down in history as FA Cup winners than finish 17th in the Premier League. And I don't think that there are many who regret it today.

Haven't forgotten a thing about our 72 point season, including how when we had it in our own hands we absolutely choked spectacularly, a lot of the credit for that season has to be given to Moyes like it or not - we maintained a defensive discipline that season which has evaporated since, sadly even with a new manager we have maintained the ability to choke when the pressure is remotely on.

Yes, Roberto inherited the back four from Moyes, but he changed the style of play completely. He introduced Barry and McCarthy as two DMs, who dropped back into the back four to cover the advancing full backs. It worked fantastically, with Coleman going forward as much as - if not more than - Baines.

Last season, opponents countered this by pressing the back four, and the team also seemed lethargic after the efforts of the Europa League. This season - in the absence of Baines - the back four has played more conventionally, with Deulofeu providing the threat down the wing.

 

[davek]

Errrm no they wouldn't mate and to think any of the players i have bolded would command a place in the best teams in the PL is absolute blue tinted glasses, and i am being generous not including Jagielka and McCarthy in that list as well

So you don't think the owners of Swansea who have set out and stuck by the way they have built the club had at least as much to do with what happened with Swansea then mate - it was all Martinez bringing his system to south Wales?

Actually mate i reckon there is hardly any Wigan fan who would trade premiership survival with the potential to always build and become a more established team in the division like others have done over a transitory feel good factor that lasted about 6 days for them. How exactly have they done since going down btw? It's like saying most Evertonians would trade one European cup win over staying in the premiership and plummeting down the divisions.

Haven't forgotten a thing about our 72 point season, including how when we had it in our own hands we absolutely choked spectacularly, a lot of the credit for that season has to be given to Moyes like it or not - we maintained a defensive discipline that season which has evaporated since, sadly even with a new manager we have maintained the ability to choke when the pressure is remotely on.

Start evaluating Martinez with balance mate, he isn't the Messiah, he is a above average for this league manager with some really strong points and some amazingly flawed ones as well

- beyond the starting XI there's nothing but cast offs he said. Not really the case though is it? The feller traded in a throwaway know nothing remark about our squad, just as he did throughout the piece on other issues

- Swansea: the owners did nothing other than settle on a good thing. It'd have been strange after Martinez had them playing an attractive brand of football that got results if they suddenly thought it was a great idea to go in another direction. I dont think there's too many who'd argue Martinez wasn't a pivotal figure in that club's history, tbh.

- Wigan: when all is said and done football fans want their team to win trophies and leave a legacy. This is a team that hadn't won a sausage in their 80 year history before they landed the cup and I doubt they'll ever do it again. No doubt they'd like to still be watching PL games, but they've tasted the kind of success most established PL clubs probably wont ever get to taste.

- So you remember the 72 point season not for any positive step change in the style of football and the performances and results against teams that had traditionally had us beaten even before the start of a game, nor as the season we smashed through the 70 point barrier (a total which would usually earn a CL spot), but as a failure....and even if it was a great effort it was down to Moyes...because, of course, he'd gotten that level of performance and points total with those players on a regular basis. Ok.

- Martinez 'the Messiah'. My position on this manager is that he's having to drag a club (including its fans) into a different football culture and that he's a very resilient man in not buckling with that task he's set. That gets my support. Not a free pass. If others want to campaign for his dismissal I'll join the debate to counter it because the bigger picture is completely lost by those people. He' shown us what can be done in terms of results and performance and there's great potential there. That's about it really. Not exactly a Messiah and not the manager we should be looking to get rid of anytime soon. I think that's pretty balanced.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

He's quality at not winning games of football.

 

[ianefc]

https://audioboom.com/channel/RadioCity

This weeks Blueroom in there. Lots of fair points made. Whether you want Martinez out/to stay/somewhere inbetween I think it's fair to say that Martinez has just a bit to do to keep the Majority in side, which their is no doubt over the past 18 months he's had, but it is slipping, their is no doubt about that.

 

[streeky]

It's like all stuff from sources like 'Goal' and 'football365' (and disreputable dailys) a trawl of fan forums to get the skeleton structure of an article on which they hang the saggy flesh of some of the most overblown criticisms amongst fans about their players/manager. Utter bunkum that's a glorified blog.

A list:

• He says we should realistically be breaking into the top four. What utter nonsense. Based on what? Our massive CL like spending? It's a knuckle head assertion he's scooped up off a forum that's been repeated on numerous occasions there.
• He argues we have stability 'and yet they're without a trophy for 20 years'. Erm, yes? How in the name of all that's holy is that down to Martinez?
• He's stating there's nothing beyond a first team at Everton - an assertion that beggars belief and just about clinches the suspicion that he's really not au fait with Everton at all.
• He falls into the trap of condemning Everton at this stage as some mid-table fodder club when a cursory glance at the spread of points shows exactly how tight the table is down to 11th position and that no team is a comfortable top half of the table team. A bit of exaggeration to work his 'argument' in and to cover his tracks.
• He states Martinez might not be as good as everyone suggests and proceeds to list his failings from last season onward without a proper scope of all of his time here. That's important because the season he omitted to mention proved beyond doubt that this manager can take a club like Everton and get an excellent season out of them. Oh, he also forgot to mention the small matter of a cup run this season that sees us on the cusp of a final appearance. Funny that. Must have slipped his mind.
• The working in of words like 'fraud' and 'spoofer' tells me all I need to know of that cut of that 'journalist'. A fraud who creates a club out of nothing at Swansea, wins a cup with a backwater club like Wigan, gets a well established PL club like Everton their best ever PL points total (not just beating Moyes and everyone else's attempts but smashing right through their best efforts), has us standing one step away from Wembley this season. That manager who did that being called a 'fraud' by some cub reporter who's scratching a living knocking out tosh like this. Laughable.

Hope that helps.

You could also say that Brendan Rogers helped build that Swansea side and he has been completely found out, Winning a pot with Wigan whilst being a highlight in their history he also got them relegated and lost a game 9-1 in the process. It's worth bearing in mind teams like Millwall and hull have reached finals in modern times thanks to favourable draws. The semi final against city whilst giving us a nice 2 games to get excited by has been achieved by playing lower division sides or seriously weakened outfits while we played nearly full strength teams. A point you raised in your earlier post also about us being a few points from challenging for a uefa/cl spot , we are also a bad Christmas from going bottom 5. Just playing devils advocate like.

 

[Toffeelover]

Flagged

???????????????

 

[Toffeelover]

- beyond the starting XI there's nothing but cast offs he said. Not really the case though is it? The feller traded in a throwaway know nothing remark about our squad, just as he did throughout the piece on other issues

- Swansea: the owners did nothing other than settle on a good thing. It'd have been strange after Martinez had them playing an attractive brand of football that got results if they suddenly thought it was a great idea to go in another direction. I dont think there's too many who'd argue Martinez wasn't a pivotal figure in that club's history, tbh.

- Wigan: when all is said and done football fans want their team to win trophies and leave a legacy. This is a team that hadn't won a sausage in their 80 year history before they landed the cup and I doubt they'll ever do it again. No doubt they'd like to still be watching PL games, but they've tasted the kind of success most established PL clubs probably wont ever get to taste.

- So you remember the 72 point season not for any positive step change in the style of football and the performances and results against teams that had traditionally had us beaten even before the start of a game, nor as the season we smashed through the 70 point barrier (a total which would usually earn a CL spot), but as a failure....and even if it was a great effort it was down to Moyes...because, of course, he'd gotten that level of performance and points total with those players on a regular basis. Ok.

- Martinez 'the Messiah'. My position on this manager is that he's having to drag a club (including its fans) into a different football culture and that he's a very resilient man in not buckling with that task he's set. That gets my support. Not a free pass. If others want to campaign for his dismissal I'll join the debate to counter it because the bigger picture is completely lost by those people. He' shown us what can be done in terms of results and performance and there's great potential there. That's about it really. Not exactly a Messiah and not the manager we should be looking to get rid of anytime soon. I think that's pretty balanced.

Yes indeed in his first season but that was 1.5 seasons ago. Looking at last season and this RM seems to have lost his way, we appear very much to be going backward not forward.

On another issue entirely if this rumoured takeover materialises RM's days could be numbered.

 

[Furey1878]

What I thank Mr. Martinez for the most during his Everton Career is the hours of entertainment this thread has provided for me.

 

[Toffeelover]

What I thank Mr. Martinez for the most during his Everton Career is the hours of entertainment this thread has provided for me.

And will continue to do so.

 

[davek]

You could also say that Brendan Rogers helped build that Swansea side and he has been completely found out, Winning a pot with Wigan whilst being a highlight in their history he also got them relegated and lost a game 9-1 in the process. It's worth bearing in mind teams like Millwall and hull have reached finals in modern times thanks to favourable draws. The semi final against city whilst giving us a nice 2 games to get excited by has been achieved by playing lower division sides or seriously weakened outfits while we played nearly full strength teams. A point you raised in your earlier post also about us being a few points from challenging for a uefa/cl spot , we are also a bad Christmas from going bottom 5. Just playing devils advocate like.

...so glass half empty then.

 

[davek]

Yes indeed in his first season but that was 1.5 seasons ago. Looking at last season and this RM seems to have lost his way, we appear very much to be going backward not forward.

On another issue entirely if this rumoured takeover materialises RM's days could be numbered.

Lost his way? I hadn't noticed. Playing the best football we've seen by Everton players for years = lost his way. Erm...

Takeover? I believe that when I see it. In any case, why would new owners desperate to stabilise and ensure they keep the club with its nose in the tv cash trough want to get rid of a manager who'll ensure that stability and employ instead an unknown quantity? That'd be odd. If I were any new owner I'd make sure I tied that manager down with a contract extension.

 

[Ihaters]

9 September 2015; SAINTS have the 15th most expensively assembled squad in Europe, according to new research. The outlay on the current group of players at St Mary’s is said to amount to about £133m - which is more than clubs including Atletico Madrid, Monaco, Borussia Dortmund, Roma and AC Milan.

The figures come from the International Centre for Sports Studies’ (CIES) Football Observatory, who have calculated how much it has cost teams in Europe’s top five leagues to assemble their squads. They also have the club as seventh in the Premier League - behind only the traditional top six of Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and Tottenham.

Southampton should be competing with us!

Id say selling Lukaku, Stones, Deulofeu and Barkley would more than cover the cost of that squad, let alone the other players in our squad. They have to spend a lot more before they get to the value of our squad.

That stat doesn't account for the likes of Barkley, Stones or Coleman that cost us pretty much nothing, its just money spent, and they spent that after selling the majority of their team, so had to buy fully made players, we bought potential and have bought it through and made it worth far more than we paid for it.

Everton's squad is still much better than Southampton's.

 

[Steve Wigan]

You could also say that Brendan Rogers helped build that Swansea side and he has been completely found out, Winning a pot with Wigan whilst being a highlight in their history he also got them relegated and lost a game 9-1 in the process. It's worth bearing in mind teams like Millwall and hull have reached finals in modern times thanks to favourable draws. The semi final against city whilst giving us a nice 2 games to get excited by has been achieved by playing lower division sides or seriously weakened outfits while we played nearly full strength teams. A point you raised in your earlier post also about us being a few points from challenging for a uefa/cl spot , we are also a bad Christmas from going bottom 5. Just playing devils advocate like.

As you will have guessed(!) I live in Wigan and talk to Wigan fans a lot. What they talk about all the time is winning the FA Cup. This was so uplifting for them the whole town got a buzz from it,and still is! In the World Football forum a few months back I told of a tour of Wigans stadium(never been there before except for a couple of evening functions) and all the staff I spoke to had nothing but praise for Martinez and his time at Wigan. The feeling is that they were always going to be relegated, but that Martinez worked miracles keeping them in the Prem so long.

 

[Stanley Parker]

If we've been giving the league cup 'a real go' then we have had a strange way of going about it. Odd line ups and having to rely on unlikely comebacks and penalty shoot outs. We have to finish high up the league to keep our better players.

The semi final against city whilst giving us a nice 2 games to get excited by has been achieved by playing lower division sides or seriously weakened outfits while we played nearly full strength teams. A point you raised in your earlier post also about us being a few points from challenging for a uefa/cl spot , we are also a bad Christmas from going bottom 5.

Well, which is it - has Roberto been fielding odd line ups or nearly full strength teams in the League Cup? And what should he do now?

He could play his strongest teams in the Premier League games so we finish high up the league - and avoid going bottom 5 - and field an odd line up twice against City.

Or he could play a strong team against an inconsistent City in the hope of taking Everton to a cup final at Wembley. Of course, our league form may suffer in the attempt.

I'm sure Roberto would like your advice.