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Roberto Martinez discussion

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streeky said:
yep but we have already won the fa cup in our history, but I don't under estimate the love wigan fans feel for him helping to get them something look back on.
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I don't see your comment supports your theory that suggested that Wigan supporters would rather have stayed in the Prem than won the cup..in fact it doesn't. I thought we were discussing Martinez' quality as a manager...what has the fact that Everton, along with many other clubs, have won the cup long before he started his career? If Everton win a cup under Martinez, its a great achievment for Martinez, and nothing to do with Everton winning the cup on previous occasions.
 
Steve Wigan said:
I don't see your comment supports your theory that suggested that Wigan supporters would rather have stayed in the Prem than won the cup..in fact it doesn't. I thought we were discussing Martinez' quality as a manager...what has the fact that Everton, along with many other clubs, have won the cup long before he started his career? If Everton win a cup under Martinez, its a great achievment for Martinez, and nothing to do with Everton winning the cup on previous occasions.
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Wigan were on a one way street to relegation. It was only a matter of time, and everybody knew it. There's not much history involved with finishing 17th in the prem, but they'll always have their name etched on that cup. ;)
 
mythbuster said:
Wigan were on a one way street to relegation. It was only a matter of time, and everybody knew it. There's not much history involved with finishing 17th in the prem, but they'll always have their name etched on that cup. ;)
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In his time at Wigan, Martinez had to reduce an already modest wage bill by 25%. And this at a time when other clubs - Southampton, for example - were sharply increasing theirs.

Eventually, the burden of the cup run and the league struggle proved too much for his squad. They beat Manchester City in the Cup Final on Saturday evening, and then played at Arsenal on the Tuesday night. Arsenal had not played at the weekend and, not surprisingly, Wigan lost and were relegated.
 
I'm not sure looking at what Martinez did at Wigan gives us any indication as to how good he is going to do at Everton. Different situations completely.
I am equally unsure in at looking back over what he has done at Everton will give us a clue as to how the remainder of this season will go. He has been a complete enigma, first season he worked wonders, second season he fell flat on his face, I cannot work out how either of these things happened.
This season he seems to have developed a very good team but he doesn't seem to be able to get the best out of them.
So I am now clear, he is a visionary who needs a bit more time to add the last few building blocks to a team which will be challenging for top four for years to come or he has been lucky enough to have stumbled on a group of good players but he hasn't the talent to get them to fulfil their collective potential.
Clear as mud.
 

Stanley Parker said:
In his time at Wigan, Martinez had to reduce an already modest wage bill by 25%. And this at a time when other clubs - Southampton, for example - were sharply increasing theirs.

Eventually, the burden of the cup run and the league struggle proved too much for his squad. They beat Manchester City in the Cup Final on Saturday evening, and then played at Arsenal on the Tuesday night. Arsenal had not played at the weekend and, not surprisingly, Wigan lost and were relegated.
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It's a miracle they still had a chance of staying up when they went to Arsenal. Some people will throw their relegation around, and use it as a stick to beat him with, whilst totally ignoring the following facts:

They're Wigan. Wigan, ffs.

'Broke a leg in a cup final' seen his arse after the '08 crash and never put another penny into the club that had achieved (relatively) so much on the back of his cash.

And, err, did I mention that they're Wigan? Judged by all relevant standards, they should really be happy to be a fourth division club, or whatever the heck that league is called nowadays.
Going back to my first sentence... (yeah, I'm on a bit of a binge, been up all night, so excuse my drunken meandering thoughts) Then if Martinez was a total chump, his mighty Wigan team would have been dead and buried before they went to Arsenal. To still have a remote chance of staying up was an achievement. We've all seen teams get buried alive, a little bit like Villa now. Martinez' Wigan never looked like that. They were shabite, but always competitive.
 
mythbuster said:
It's a miracle they still had a chance of staying up when they went to Arsenal. Some people will throw their relegation around, and use it as a stick to beat him with, whilst totally ignoring the following facts:

They're Wigan. Wigan, ffs.

'Broke a leg in a cup final' seen his arse after the '08 crash and never put another penny into the club that had achieved (relatively) so much on the back of his cash.

And, err, did I mention that they're Wigan? Judged by all relevant standards, they should really be happy to be a fourth division club, or whatever the heck that league is called nowadays.
Going back to my first sentence... (yeah, I'm on a bit of a binge, been up all night, so excuse my drunken meandering thoughts) Then if Martinez was a total chump, his mighty Wigan team would have been dead and buried before they went to Arsenal. To still have a remote chance of staying up was an achievement. We've all seen teams get buried alive, a little bit like Villa now. Martinez' Wigan never looked like that. They were shabite, but always competitive.
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Ultra-competitive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/8365091.stm
 
mythbuster said:
Whatever. I'm not even clicking that link. Are you telling me that going into the last game of a season with a chance of staying in the Premier League is not competitive for a club like Wigan?

You've seen Derby, Sunderland, and now Villa etc mate.

Now be a good lid, and try to say something funny.
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Nope, it's the one 14 games into the season where they got battered 9-1.

You're showing yourself up a bit here mate, might be an idea to get sober and come back.

You talk about them being on a one way street to relegation, but he actually managed to perform worse in the league than Steve Bruce. They had much the same financial model (and background) as Swansea.
 
Martinez did well at Wigan but he needs to grow with his promotion to a much bigger Everton -
He has made progress and therefore i won't fire him now -
on condition that we keep on improving all be it slowly.
Most of us know where the Everton weak spots are - so must he - and he must fix it
Come on mr Martinez - show some courage and strategical knowhow
we want to be impressed - that is not asking too much is it?
 

orly said:
Nope, it's the one 14 games into the season where they got battered 9-1.

You're showing yourself up a bit here mate, might be an idea to get sober and come back.

You talk about them being on a one way street to relegation, but he actually managed to perform worse in the league than Steve Bruce. They had much the same financial model (and background) as Swansea.
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Not showing myself up at all. I did tell you I wasn't clicking on the link ;)

The point I'm making is, errr, they're Wigan. Wigan, ffs. By all rights, they should have been buried alive after brokey leg Dave pulled the plug, but they're not the worst team the prem has ever seen. Even in the season they went down, they had a fighting chance (however a remote possibility) of staying up going into the final game.
 
Sideliner said:
Martinez did well at Wigan but he needs to grow with his promotion to a much bigger Everton -
He has made progress and therefore i won't fire him now -
on condition that we keep on improving all be it slowly.
Most of us know where the Everton weak spots are - so must he - and he must fix it
Come on mr Martinez - show some courage and strategical knowhow
we want to be impressed - that is not asking too much is it?
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You will find out by the end of the season, so far it is looking a bit like last season. But time will tell.
 
mythbuster said:
Not showing myself up at all. I did tell you I wasn't clicking on the link ;)

The point I'm making is, errr, they're Wigan. Wigan, ffs. By all rights, they should have been buried alive after brokey leg Dave pulled the plug, but they're not the worst team the prem has ever seen. Even in the season they went down, they had a fighting chance (however a remote possibility) of staying up going into the final game.
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Or you could look at it this way

2008/2009 - Bruce gets them to finish 11th with 45 points (like us last year, wasn't it?)
2012/2013 - relegated with Martinez, having only just (last day) survived 2010-11 (second to last game the following season I think, May 7th).

Cup yes, league performance no. Under Martinez the flirted with relegation twice, and got relegated once, in four seasons. That's four of the eight seasons in the Premier League.
 
orly said:
Or you could look at it this way

2008/2009 - Bruce gets them to finish 11th with 45 points (like us last year, wasn't it?)
2012/2013 - relegated with Martinez, having only just (last day) survived 2010-11 (second to last game the following season I think, May 7th).

Cup yes, league performance no. Under Martinez the flirted with relegation twice, and got relegated once, in four seasons. That's four of the eight seasons in the Premier League.
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You're ignoring the fact that David Legstrong pulled the plug, about 3 or 4 years before they went down, and stopped propping up the pie eating, rugby club.

It's laughable to suggest that anybody should have kept that club in the prem for more than a season.
 
great to see a couple of posters with plenty of conviction in their opposing opinions battling it out here

dunno what way this is gonna go, can't call it at all

but like I say it's great to see, and very, very refreshing
 

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