Roberto Martinez discussion

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Last season was awful. The Christmas fixtures were particular terrible with defeats against Southampton, Stoke and Newcastle. The football we were playing was pedestrian, just generally crap. The turning point seemed to be the West Ham FA Cup third round match were we actually put in a display that the fans could recognise.

It was around that time when I asked myself how much time would I give Martinez? It was a legitimate question to ask considering that we were slowly being pulled into a relegation fight.

In the end I gave him until this Christmas. By this Christmas I wanted to see an Everton side showing signs of realising its potential, no lower the 7/8 in the league, looking to push on for a top four spot.

Going into the boxing day match against Newcastle we were 11th, exactly the same position we finished at the end of last season. We had just come through a fixture list of Bournemouth, Crystal Palace, Norwich and Leicester and taken just three points. That with a much tougher run of fixtures to look forward to. Under those circumstances I think it was perfectly legitimate to ask questions of Martinez. Whenever we took a lead you just know we were going to surrender it and from absolute crap defending.

I ask myself, is Martinez getting the most out of these players? Is there no manager out there, who could get any more out of them?

Martinez has three players who are arguably over £40 million (Barkley, Lukaku and Stones). That is a valuation given by my kopite mate. Can Bournemouth, Crystal Palace, Norwich and Leicester field 3 players of that value? That doesn't even account for Coleman, McCarthy and Deulofeu who are worth serious money.

I would give him until the end of the season but there needs to be an improvement between now and then. The squad is currently underachieving in the league.
 
I'm most curious to see the rotation he has in mind over this period I can see three or four changes today. (And there will promptly be none).

I'm also waiting for the meltdown when he rests Lukaku for Kone. Or for Naismith against Chelsea.

Not long to wait now...
 
madkiwi said:
I'm most curious to see the rotation he has in mind over this period I can see three or four changes today. (And there will promptly be none).

I'm also waiting for the meltdown when he rests Lukaku for Kone. Or for Naismith against Chelsea. Not long to wait now...
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McCarthy has had an enforced rest. I'd rather Lukaku was rested for an occasional game than missing through injury.

Christmas is a tough time for players.
 
smileychap said:
Can't really put my finger on why we slipped last year, I watched the 3rd goal versus Lille and thought we looked like a CL team!
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Lots of injuries and overall lack of consistency. Howard suddenly having clangers left and right and distin falling off a cliff with no plan b.
 
balggy said:
Last season was awful. The Christmas fixtures were particular terrible with defeats against Southampton, Stoke and Newcastle. The football we were playing was pedestrian, just generally crap. The turning point seemed to be the West Ham FA Cup third round match were we actually put in a display that the fans could recognise.

It was around that time when I asked myself how much time would I give Martinez? It was a legitimate question to ask considering that we were slowly being pulled into a relegation fight.

In the end I gave him until this Christmas. By this Christmas I wanted to see an Everton side showing signs of realising its potential, no lower the 7/8 in the league, looking to push on for a top four spot.

Going into the boxing day match against Newcastle we were 11th, exactly the same position we finished at the end of last season. We had just come through a fixture list of Bournemouth, Crystal Palace, Norwich and Leicester and taken just three points. That with a much tougher run of fixtures to look forward to. Under those circumstances I think it was perfectly legitimate to ask questions of Martinez. Whenever we took a lead you just know we were going to surrender it and from absolute crap defending.

I ask myself, is Martinez getting the most out of these players? Is there no manager out there, who could get any more out of them?

Martinez has three players who are arguably over £40 million (Barkley, Lukaku and Stones). That is a valuation given by my kopite mate. Can Bournemouth, Crystal Palace, Norwich and Leicester field 3 players of that value? That doesn't even account for Coleman, McCarthy and Deulofeu who are worth serious money.

I would give him until the end of the season but there needs to be an improvement between now and then. The squad is currently underachieving in the league.
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Excellent post mate.
 

degsy said:
Some one? just plain ole 'some one'
such a profound insight is not worth some much as a like or a tag?

But joking apart, yes, really.

you can wake me up by vaulting me to tell me when it happens...no sorry, not when, I mean 'if', but it won't, so you won't...won't have to trouble the 'Do not disturb' sign on my metaphorical door that is.
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I was on me phone last night and couldn't be arsed re-loading the previous page haha.

Whether you think we will get CL or not is your opinion mate (I don't think we will), but at this stage with only 6 points gap, it's not a fair assesment that it's too late, is it?
 
balggy said:
Last season was awful. The Christmas fixtures were particular terrible with defeats against Southampton, Stoke and Newcastle. The football we were playing was pedestrian, just generally crap. The turning point seemed to be the West Ham FA Cup third round match were we actually put in a display that the fans could recognise.
It was around that time when I asked myself how much time would I give Martinez? It was a legitimate question to ask considering that we were slowly being pulled into a relegation fight. In the end I gave him until this Christmas. By this Christmas I wanted to see an Everton side showing signs of realising its potential, no lower the 7/8 in the league, looking to push on for a top four spot.

Going into the boxing day match against Newcastle we were 11th, exactly the same position we finished at the end of last season. We had just come through a fixture list of Bournemouth, Crystal Palace, Norwich and Leicester and taken just three points. That with a much tougher run of fixtures to look forward to. Under those circumstances I think it was perfectly legitimate to ask questions of Martinez. Whenever we took a lead you just know we were going to surrender it and from absolute crap defending.

I ask myself, is Martinez getting the most out of these players? Is there no manager out there, who could get any more out of them?

Martinez has three players who are arguably over £40 million (Barkley, Lukaku and Stones). That is a valuation given by my kopite mate. Can Bournemouth, Crystal Palace, Norwich and Leicester field 3 players of that value? That doesn't even account for Coleman, McCarthy and Deulofeu who are worth serious money.

I would give him until the end of the season but there needs to be an improvement between now and then. The squad is currently underachieving in the league.
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Erm, yes, and....?

If you cant see clear signs of a team developing and realising its potential then I dont know what sort of "signs" you're looking for. Stevie Wonder can see the massive uptick in performance between last winter and this winter. As for 7th/8th and top four proximity as a marker: we're one point off the former and 6 points off the latter. You'd have to be a fully paid up member of the Hair Splitting Society to say Everton hadn't reached your own set targets.
 

davek said:
Erm, yes, and....?

If you cant see clear signs of a team developing and realising its potential then I dont know what sort of "signs" you're looking for. Stevie Wonder can see the massive uptick in performance between last winter and this winter. As for 7th/8th and top four proximity as a marker: we're one point off the former and 6 points off the latter. You'd have to be a fully paid up member of the Hair Splitting Society to say Everton hadn't reached your own set targets.
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It's marginal. Going into the Newcastle match we were in the same position as we finished last season. I accept it is a tight league.

But with the exception of Chelsea, who are an anomaly, there is no one behind us who you would say we are doing well to be in front of. We couldn't defend last season, we still can't.

We have some tough matches coming up, but like I said, the jury is out, as it should be for any club who has largely maintained and built on a squad that so nearly finished 4th 18 months ago.
 
davek said:
Erm, yes, and....?

If you cant see clear signs of a team developing and realising its potential then I dont know what sort of "signs" you're looking for. Stevie Wonder can see the massive uptick in performance between last winter and this winter. As for 7th/8th and top four proximity as a marker: we're one point off the former and 6 points off the latter. You'd have to be a fully paid up member of the Hair Splitting Society to say Everton hadn't reached your own set targets.
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lol @ Stevie Wonder......



Happy New zyesr, Dave....;)
 
GwladysBlue said:
You just said you could tell me why they would be horrible appointments and then didn't.

Mark Hughes has Stoke playing some brilliant football at the minute, with players like Bojan and Arnautovic really flourishing.

You can't possibly be saying that Martinez is the only manager to be getting Deulofeu to play good football.

We have underachieved now for 18 months. Jose Mourinho, Brendan Rodgers, Van Gaal and according to you, Koeman have all come under real pressure and some have even lost their jobs.

Why should it be that we have a manager who is under no danger of losing his job? Pressure is a good thing, it means there are expectations that need meeting.

The person who asked, asked for realistic candidates. Outside of Europe's top teams, I can't say I'm too familiar with the others.
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I didn't tell you because not very cleverly you keep avoiding answering anything in any meaningful way. Not only that but I alluded to part of my answer anyways. He is under pressure and is in danger if results don't pick up as I've said, so it's clear you're simply either a troll or can't read or refuse to. Of course Martinez isn't literally the only manager but why do you think Barcelona trusted us with his loan and wanted us to be the ones to buy even at a lower price for them (and don't say the return clauses cause plenty would have taken that)? So did Hughes become another manager overnight and his past forgotten or did he finally get all his licenses this season and now he knows how to play? They aren't playing "brilliant" football in my opinion they are getting results. Fair enough if you're admitting unfamiliarity with other managers but doesn't that sound like someone who shouldn't really be commenting on the search for a new manager? Especially as your extensive research and knowledge on why they would be better candidates proved too much to even look up one of their names. I'd be curious to know actually how many Stoke, Southampton, and Watford games you've watched or whether you've just seen their results on motd and thought yea I'll have them. I find it rather alarming as well that in one post you claim that the other managers situations aren't comparable to ours yet you keep putting forward that you feel they'd be better for us which necessitates comparison so in total you've answered nearly nothing and managed to have bound yourself up within your own argumentation.
 

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