Roberto Martinez discussion

[Eggs]

.....regardless of how things are going there will always be an element of the support who want the manager out. Strange really, he's the one who's assembled the group of players that somebody like Mark Hughes can better manage.

 

[GwladysBlue]

I'm not advocating Hughes, but didn't he throw his hat into the ring when Moyes left? Mind you, so did Steve Kean lol

I assume you'd look past the Lescott saga then?

I think he did, didn't he reject Villa and we were looking for a manager at the time?

I hated him after the Lescott saga, beating his Man City teams were up there with beating Liverpool at that time.

I think as football fans though, we're all very fickle. Sterling used to get abuse from all fans, now he is cheered by the City fans.

Rooney used to get dogs abuse by our own fans and now there are many (don't know about in his current form) who'd want him back in a heartbeat.

I think Hughes has done a great job at the majority of clubs he has managed. Man City never gave him time, his objective was 4th and they were on course for it.

What happened at QPR was a bit bizarre in the amount of players that they bought.

 

[KevMirallas]

I've tried to stay out of this whole Martinez debate as its a bit rubbish in general, but I can categorically say that under no circumstances should Mark Hughes be preferred to our current manager.

 

[Groucho]

I think he did, didn't he reject Villa and we were looking for a manager at the time?

I hated him after the Lescott saga, beating his Man City teams were up there with beating Liverpool at that time.

I think as football fans though, we're all very fickle. Sterling used to get abuse from all fans, now he is cheered by the City fans.

Rooney used to get dogs abuse by our own fans and now there are many (don't know about in his current form) who'd want him back in a heartbeat.

I think Hughes has done a great job at the majority of clubs he has managed. Man City never gave him time, his objective was 4th and they were on course for it.

What happened at QPR was a bit bizarre in the amount of players that they bought.

Whether we're pro or anti Martinez, or merely speculating for the fun of it, it's all academic. There ain't no way he's getting the sack barring a catastrophe.

I was impressed by the stance he took over Stones in the summer - would another manager have just stood aside? I'm pretty sure Moyes would have let him go.

 

[GwladysBlue]

But Martinez also won a cup with Wigan of all people and kept them up for several years against the odds. It's hardly like Koeman who he has no history or background in the league.
We play better footy than them anyway so surely you'd want to go with the manager who has actually won something and has a managerial history of overperforming and building something as Martinez did at Swansea...

Is a cup something to measure the quality of a manager, though?

Don't get me wrong, winning a cup with Wigan was a great achievement, but I've also seen the likes of Alex McLeish and Laudrup win cups.

I don't think he over performed at Wigan. Didn't all their previous Premier League managers have better records than him?

Martinez has us playing some great football at times. My main gripe is the defence and his stubbornness . Wherever he has been, his defence has always been suspect. He is the only manager I can remember to have nine goals put past them in a game.

If it was a one off season, then fair enough. Barring his first season, the defence has been his Achilles heel.

He shows blind loyalty to players who are simply not good enough.

Maybe if he showed me that he had the courage to drop underperforming players and work on the defence, I'd be a bit more lenient on my opinion of him.

 

[GwladysBlue]

Whether we're pro or anti Martinez, or merely speculating for the fun of it, it's all academic. There ain't no way he's getting the sack barring a catastrophe.

I was impressed by the stance he took over Stones in the summer - would another manager have just stood aside? I'm pretty sure Moyes would have let him go.

I was impressed by that too. I think Moyes would have definitely let him go.

 

[Kiwi]

I think he did, didn't he reject Villa and we were looking for a manager at the time?

I hated him after the Lescott saga, beating his Man City teams were up there with beating Liverpool at that time.

I think as football fans though, we're all very fickle. Sterling used to get abuse from all fans, now he is cheered by the City fans.

Rooney used to get dogs abuse by our own fans and now there are many (don't know about in his current form) who'd want him back in a heartbeat.

I think Hughes has done a great job at the majority of clubs he has managed. Man City never gave him time, his objective was 4th and they were on course for it.

What happened at QPR was a bit bizarre in the amount of players that they bought.

I'm sorry but if your argument is that he could get better out of the talented players we have, Man City is far more a detractor than a positive.
He spent £270m while he was there, the players were nothing if not talented...

 

[GwladysBlue]

I'm sorry but if your argument is that he could get better out of the talented players we have, Man City is far more a detractor than a positive.
He spent £270m while he was there, the players were nothing if not talented...

A good chunk of that money was spent on the last day of the transfer market.

Them new owners came in and just started bidding for every top player in world football. Ending up with Robinho.

Personally, I don't think Hughes had a say that day.

 

[vagant59]

This " we play better football than them " phrase is not true at the moment as it is only happening at one end of the field. At the other end I think you will find that most teams are playing better football than us. The team consists of 11 players, so when you are making a statement about our performances it would be wise to look at the team as a whole

 

[Kiwi]

Is a cup something to measure the quality of a manager, though? Yes, trophies are an appropriate barometer for success.

Don't get me wrong, winning a cup with Wigan was a great achievement, but I've also seen the likes of Alex McLeish and Laudrup win cups.
Hence they enjoyed some success with their clubs over that timeframe.

I don't think he over performed at Wigan. Didn't all their previous Premier League managers have better records than him?
Steve Bruce was given some level of finances to work with. In the credit crunch JJB Sport struggled and Roberto was given the lowest net spend of every PL team while he was there. They sold a key player every season but he kept them up and playing pretty football.

Martinez has us playing some great football at times. My main gripe is the defence and his stubbornness . Wherever he has been, his defence has always been suspect. He is the only manager I can remember to have nine goals put past them in a game.
I suggest you ask the opinion of some Wigan fans of that game.
If it was a one off season, then fair enough. Barring his first season, the defence has been his Achilles heel.
He shows blind loyalty to players who are simply not good enough.
Who would you consider not good enough?
Kone has contributed plenty to our team this season, suggesting without the injury he would have been a worthwhile contribution to our team.
Howard is still our best keeper for me despite his limitations.
If you say Barry I'm going to giggle.
Maybe if he showed me that he had the courage to drop underperforming players and work on the defence, I'd be a bit more lenient on my opinion of him.
See Sylvain Distin and Samuel Eto'o and Romelu Lukaku for people that he's dropped.
The defence is an ongoing issue that has been mitigated somewhat this season by having key experienced players like Coleman, Baines and Jags out for a lengthy period of time.
Young players make mistakes, and defence is an area where you want consistency and stability so as to form good partnerships and defend as a group. Having those younger players at the back learning the game is obviously going to contribute to our defence looking a little shaky at times.

 

[Kiwi]

This " we play better football than them " phrase is not true at the moment as it is only happening at one end of the field. At the other end I think you will find that most teams are playing better football than us. The team consists of 11 players, so when you are making a statement about our performances it would be wise to look at the team as a whole

We have been playing better football.
I'm happy to make that statement because I believe we have been producing better performances than most other teams we have faced, but the results haven't backed this up because of a mixture of bad luck and not taking the chances that we have created.

 

[Kiwi]

A good chunk of that money was spent on the last day of the transfer market.

Them new owners came in and just started bidding for every top player in world football. Ending up with Robinho.

Personally, I don't think Hughes had a say that day.

So he failed to get the best out of the top players that were brought in for him?
If that's the case, why would he be able to get more out of players that again aren't players that he brought in if he wasn't able to do it there?
Why suddenly could he do it here?
Two ninth placed finishes are nothing to write home about with Stoke.

 

[GwladysBlue]

So he failed to get the best out of the top players that were brought in for him?
If that's the case, why would he be able to get more out of players that again aren't players that he brought in if he wasn't able to do it there?
Why suddenly could he do it here?
Two ninth placed finishes are nothing to write home about with Stoke.

There were a lot of huge egos to deal with and overbearing CEO in Cook. Working conditions aren't always right for people.

I think two 9th place finishes with Stoke is a great achievement. They're a club that only get 27,000 fans watching them.

 

[vagant59]

We have been playing better football.
I'm happy to make that statement because I believe we have been producing better performances than most other teams we have faced, but the results haven't backed this up because of a mixture of bad luck and not taking the chances that we have created.

The use of the word LUCK is frowned upon by some on here , so I suggest you with draw it and use the phrase "did not deserve"

 

[Kiwi]

The use of the word LUCK is frowned upon by some on here , so I suggest you with draw it and use the phrase "did not deserve"

I'll take your suggestion and completely disregard it.
Why should I care what others think of my use of the word.
We haven't got the results our play has merited by things oft described as luck going for the other team.
We have been unlucky to draw on several occasions in my opinion.