Roberto Martinez discussion

[Allezfan]

Serious post this time.

The thing is, people are saying that the current football that we play is the best we've played in decades.

Totally disagree - a Martinez side has certainly played the best football, but it isn't this one, it's the one from his first season. Not only could they rampage forwards (3-0 at home to Arsenal being the highpoint) but defend, too. 'Total' performances. Inherited defensive strength and an unleashed forward line. Best of both worlds.

That game was the best I've ever seen at Goodison, I think. We were playing a genuinely good team and were utterly dominant. It's things like that (and the arsewhipping we gave Wolfsburg) that mean I still have time for Martinez.

I can't really see it happeneing again though because he's been so often and uncharacteristically really defensive and cowardly in the big games over the last 18 months.

 

[toffee matt]

That game was the best I've ever seen at Goodison, I think. We were playing a genuinely good team and were utterly dominant. It's things like that (and the arsewhipping we gave Wolfsburg) that mean I still have time for Martinez.

I can't really see it happeneing again though because he's been so often and uncharacteristically really defensive and cowardly in the big games over the last 18 months.

Suspect conceding 6 against Chelsea last season has a lot to do with that

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

The argument always was that the reason Wigan defended so poorly was because Martinez had bad defenders to work with. Well he's got much better defenders now and his side is still shipping goals at an alarming rate.

I have a genuine fear that he will never truly get the defence right, no matter who he has to work with.

There's been some incredible attacking football during his tenure here, with more no doubt on the horizon, but there's also been some truly horrendous defending.

As good an attacking coach that Martinez is, he's as awful a defensive one

This could be overcome if he brought another coach in to handle that side of things, but I'm afraid he's too stubborn to do that

I think we're going to be a decentish cup team destined to finish mid table forevermore unless Martinez gets someone in to help him. I'm sure some are just fine with that so long as the football's exciting, but that's not a sustainable approach for the future health of the club IMO, especially when the talented players playing that amazing football skip town because they actually want to win things

 

[moyeslovechild]

if we'd play like 2013/14 again, i'd be straight back in love with martinez

eff me, if we played like that with lukaku & barkley right now, we'd be where spurs are atleast

 

[Allezfan]

The argument always was that the reason Wigan defended so poorly was because Martinez had bad defenders to work with. Well he's got much better defenders now and his side is still shipping goals at an alarming rate.

Has he though?

He's got two very young and inexperienced defenders playing in front of a liabilty in goal. I think once jags is back or howard has been replaced that defence will be a million times better. I don't buy the idea that it all comes down to martinez' coaching.

 

[lancs blue]

Martinez relied on the south american market at wigan. some worked some didnt like mauro boselli

 

[ultra]

Has he though?

He's got two very young and inexperienced defenders playing in front of a liabilty in goal. I think once jags is back or howard has been replaced that defence will be a million times better. I don't buy the idea that it all comes down to martinez' coaching.

He won't replace Howard...

 

[beachy]

This time last year I wanted Martinez out.

For some reason now I'd prefer him to stay. Despite all the goals conceded.

All out attack gives us a better chance of bridging the gap to the top.

 

[Allezfan]

Martinez relied on the south american market at wigan. some worked some didnt like mauro boselli

No he didn't, most of his more succesful signings (Gomez, Kone, Mccarthy, Moses, Caldwell, Diame, Di Santo, Sammon, McArthur, Al-Habsi, Maloney) were from europe. He bought in 3 or 4 latin americans but it was hardly what he relied on.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Has he though?

He's got two very young and inexperienced defenders playing in front of a liabilty in goal. I think once jags is back or howard has been replaced that defence will be a million times better. I don't buy the idea that it all comes down to martinez' coaching.

They may not be finished articles yet, but they are both better than conceding 4 goals at home

Howard is a liability, but who keeps picking him regardless?

And yeah, Funes Mori is inexperienced, but who signed him?

He could have signed a more experienced CB if he'd wanted to and developed lads like Pennington instead. He's in the situation he's in because HE'S made bad decisions

I'm sure Funes Mori will come good, but why not have a more experienced CB in the wings in case Jags went down? Why get rid of Distin and Alcaraz but not have another veteran CB in the squad as well?

Sod it, get a 30+ journeyman from The Championship of needs be.

If you're using an inexperienced defence and a crap keeper as an excuse for our defensive rut, then the responsibility for that lays squarely at Martinez's feet and again highlights that he needs someone else there he can defer to

 

[ijjysmith]

No he didn't, most of his more succesful signings (Gomez, Kone, Mccarthy, Moses, Caldwell, Diame, Di Santo, Sammon, McArthur, Al-Habsi, Maloney) were from europe. He bought in 3 or 4 latin americans but it was hardly what he relied on.

Have you just classed Connar Sammon as a successful signing mate?

 

[hullefc]

That game was the best I've ever seen at Goodison, I think. We were playing a genuinely good team and were utterly dominant. It's things like that (and the arsewhipping we gave Wolfsburg) that mean I still have time for Martinez.

I can't really see it happeneing again though because he's been so often and uncharacteristically really defensive and cowardly in the big games over the last 18 months.

Good post. He did show signs of defensiveness over the last 18 months and it showed that he was not quite getting the balance right. That is why the players were instrumental in asking for a more attacking 'get it forward quicker' style of play and it worked. Lukaku's control was a big issue for this type of play, but it was sufficiently good enough just for this type of play, and we played better.

That is why this season I think he has tried to carry on in the same vein - getting it forward to a player that has been transformed due to working on his game. And the players have shown great attacking flair. But our underbelly of defending, particularly at home, has been hampered by not having our first choice defence, regularly enough. That should improve when Jags gets back and Baines.

I think he will get the balance right and have played some incredible football that shows what the players are capable of. A cup win would do the confidence of the players, the club and the fans no end.

 

[Allezfan]

Have you just classed Connar Sammon as a successful signing mate?

Scored the goal that kept them up didn't he?

 

[ijjysmith]

Scored the goal that kept them up didn't he?

No idea. Did it come off his massive massive face?

 

[4737carlin]

This time last year I wanted Martinez out.

For some reason now I'd prefer him to stay. Despite all the goals conceded.

All out attack gives us a better chance of bridging the gap to the top.

But does it? It should, and would if we could make it work like Leicester, who also leak goals, but for us it dosen't. We were closer to the top 4 under Moyes, now we are closer to the bottom tier of the league in terms of places not points, even thou the top 4 this season with no obvious four, is the easiest to step into since the premier league started.

We have scored 12 more goals than Palace, have the same goal difference, but they are 5th while we are 11th, it not about goals, but over all performance.